GraceRandolph Posted July 22 Posted July 22 2 minutes ago, ShadeIena said: Why don't you guys ever consider voting for a third party? Libertarians for example Greens are the only decent third party and they're not on the ballot in my state.
ShadeIena Posted July 22 Posted July 22 1 minute ago, GraceRandolph said: Greens are the only decent third party and they're not on the ballot in my state. what makes greens different? I'm not aware of their political views. Also I said libertarians cuz it's the most popular party among the others according to the polls
Sergi91 Posted July 22 Posted July 22 8 minutes ago, ShadeIena said: Why don't you guys ever consider voting for a third party? Libertarians for example Perhaps for local elections but never for a presidential election. 2
wastedpotential Posted July 22 Posted July 22 I think my coconut pill just wore off Kamala is going to have a hell of a hard time making any constructive policy proposals that are anything more than "I'm not Trump and I won't do Project 2025!", because everything she might want to propose is going to get trapped in an institutional inertia trap (student loans for instance), is going to get held up by a likely Republican Senate (M4A has been dead this election, but I could see her trying to bring it back, but it'll just turn into another ACA clusterfuck and never leave Congress and she'll come off looking really bad), is too scary for the mythical independents and centrists being chased by the DNC (Supreme Court reform via packing or forcing through the constitutional changes required for term limits), or will aggravate too much of her hypothetical support base to be worth bringing up (she clearly tried to distance herself from Biden's blank check to Israel, but there don't seem to be many options to gain ground on this issue that don't include a total blockade on weapons shipments and financial aid (or maybe even a change in recognition), all of which would face immense pushback from a hypothetical Republican senate, a hypothetically un-packed SC, and a hypothetical AIPAC allied with Trump, let alone the few hundred thousand wealthy donor Zionists who would jump ship at the first sign of trouble). We'll still have the honeymoon period, but I've already managed to talk myself out of any hopes of discussions of forward momentum or institutional change during the election cycle, let alone the implementation of any momentum or change. She'll always have my vote, but in 108 days when people are hearing her laugh in their nightmares, are sick and tired of coconut jokes, and she's essentially cloned most of Biden's policy proposals, it seems like she's going to be in a bad position going into the election 3
GraceRandolph Posted July 22 Posted July 22 4 minutes ago, ShadeIena said: what makes greens different? I'm not aware of their political views. Also I said libertarians cuz it's the most popular party among the others according to the polls Greens are the only non-corporate backed party in the USA. They don't talk to lobbyists, accept corporate money, or align with SuperPACs. They are left-wing and anti-war, while being socially progressive like the Democrats.
ShadeIena Posted July 22 Posted July 22 4 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Greens are the only non-corporate backed party in the USA. They don't talk to lobbyists, accept corporate money, or align with SuperPACs. They are left-wing and anti-war, while being socially progressive like the Democrats. 6 minutes ago, Sergi91 said: Perhaps for local elections but never for a presidential election. but why does the newer generations have no intentions on changing this?
Blade Posted July 22 Posted July 22 19 minutes ago, ShadeIena said: Why don't you guys ever consider voting for a third party? Libertarians for example Girl Libertarians are far right 1
Sergi91 Posted July 22 Posted July 22 2 minutes ago, ShadeIena said: but why does the newer generations have no intentions on changing this? We do want change. Hopefully one day this country will decide who wins the presidency by the popular vote and not the electoral college. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening in our lifetime. 1
ShadeIena Posted July 22 Posted July 22 Just now, Blade said: Girl Libertarians are far right I gave an example , you have the Greens as another example
ShadeIena Posted July 22 Posted July 22 Just now, Sergi91 said: We do want change. Hopefully one day this country will decide who wins the presidency by the popular vote and not the electoral college. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening in our lifetime. It's so confusing why they don't even have the chance to go to the national debate
Sergi91 Posted July 22 Posted July 22 6 minutes ago, ShadeIena said: It's so confusing why they don't even have the chance to go to the national debate Republicans won't allow the change because it will be the end of them winning future presidencies. Their argument is that the election "could" be decided by the people in New York City and Los Angeles who have been voting for democrats for many years.
GhostBox Posted July 22 Posted July 22 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sergi91 said: Republicans won't allow the change because it will be the end of them winning future presidencies. Their argument is that the election "could" be decided by the people in New York City and Los Angeles who have been voting for democrats for many years. Which really doenst make sense. I'd say there are millions of gop voters in blue states who don't vote because it doenst matter just like there's millions of Dem voters in red states who don't vote because it doenst matter. having a winner takes all popular vote election could potentially change up the map in crazy ways. (Not that it would matter much but still) Edited July 22 by GhostBox 1
That Bad Eartha Posted July 22 Posted July 22 22 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: I think my coconut pill just wore off Kamala is going to have a hell of a hard time making any constructive policy proposals that are anything more than "I'm not Trump and I won't do Project 2025!", because everything she might want to propose is going to get trapped in an institutional inertia trap (student loans for instance), is going to get held up by a likely Republican Senate (M4A has been dead this election, but I could see her trying to bring it back, but it'll just turn into another ACA clusterfuck and never leave Congress and she'll come off looking really bad), is too scary for the mythical independents and centrists being chased by the DNC (Supreme Court reform via packing or forcing through the constitutional changes required for term limits), or will aggravate too much of her hypothetical support base to be worth bringing up (she clearly tried to distance herself from Biden's blank check to Israel, but there don't seem to be many options to gain ground on this issue that don't include a total blockade on weapons shipments and financial aid (or maybe even a change in recognition), all of which would face immense pushback from a hypothetical Republican senate, a hypothetically un-packed SC, and a hypothetical AIPAC allied with Trump, let alone the few hundred thousand wealthy donor Zionists who would jump ship at the first sign of trouble). We'll still have the honeymoon period, but I've already managed to talk myself out of any hopes of discussions of forward momentum or institutional change during the election cycle, let alone the implementation of any momentum or change. She'll always have my vote, but in 108 days when people are hearing her laugh in their nightmares, are sick and tired of coconut jokes, and she's essentially cloned most of Biden's policy proposals, it seems like she's going to be in a bad position going into the election I don't really think anyone has any illusions that this is an election where any major institutional change is possible (2016/2020 were our best chances for that if Dems weren't so awful). We all know it is purely about preventing Trump from getting in office again (and if we can't do that at least getting the house back so he doesn't have unchecked power). I mean even in this thread you have some of our most firm progressive voices largely aligned behind Kamala and I promise you it isn't because we're crazy in love with her as a politician. 6 1
GraceRandolph Posted July 22 Posted July 22 29 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: I think my coconut pill just wore off Kamala is going to have a hell of a hard time making any constructive policy proposals that are anything more than "I'm not Trump and I won't do Project 2025!", because everything she might want to propose is going to get trapped in an institutional inertia trap (student loans for instance), is going to get held up by a likely Republican Senate (M4A has been dead this election, but I could see her trying to bring it back, but it'll just turn into another ACA clusterfuck and never leave Congress and she'll come off looking really bad), is too scary for the mythical independents and centrists being chased by the DNC (Supreme Court reform via packing or forcing through the constitutional changes required for term limits), or will aggravate too much of her hypothetical support base to be worth bringing up (she clearly tried to distance herself from Biden's blank check to Israel, but there don't seem to be many options to gain ground on this issue that don't include a total blockade on weapons shipments and financial aid (or maybe even a change in recognition), all of which would face immense pushback from a hypothetical Republican senate, a hypothetically un-packed SC, and a hypothetical AIPAC allied with Trump, let alone the few hundred thousand wealthy donor Zionists who would jump ship at the first sign of trouble). We'll still have the honeymoon period, but I've already managed to talk myself out of any hopes of discussions of forward momentum or institutional change during the election cycle, let alone the implementation of any momentum or change. She'll always have my vote, but in 108 days when people are hearing her laugh in their nightmares, are sick and tired of coconut jokes, and she's essentially cloned most of Biden's policy proposals, it seems like she's going to be in a bad position going into the election Yeah the idea that coconut tree/Charli XCX memes are indicative of a huge surge for Kamala is… At the end of the day she's a huge underdog coming into the race in the eleventh hour as a Hail Mary pass, and we have to be honest that some independent white male voters in swing states might just not be ready for a woc potus, even white women vote majority Republican. Kamala can be sunk by the worst parts of Biden's record but can't take full credit for the positives. 1 minute ago, That Bad Eartha said: I don't really think anyone has any illusions that this is an election where any major institutional change is possible (2016/2020 were our best chances for that if Dems weren't so awful). We all know it is purely about preventing Trump from getting in office again (and if we can't do that at least getting the house back so he doesn't have unchecked power). I mean even in this thread you have some of our most firm progressive voices largely aligned behind Kamala and I promise you it isn't because we're crazy in love with her as a politician. I don't think less than some sort of promise of a better future will lure in the voters necessary to beat Trump this time. 1
eyeroll Posted July 22 Posted July 22 Omg I spent way too long catching up on the last 20 pages. A couple random thoughts: - joined the discord thanks to the person who shared that link! - if I was Obama (maybe I am??) I would have let today's message be about Joe. They have so much history together and I think it was really respectful for him to take this moment just to honor Joe. He'll obviously come out in support of Kamala soon and that'll be another cute little news hit following all the other dem statements supporting her - go figure the only people on social media being loud about buttigieg are the white gays. They seriously do not realize his lack of support among black voters. Why on earth would Kamala pick him. So unserious. - I want a group hug
GraceRandolph Posted July 22 Posted July 22 1 minute ago, eyeroll said: Omg I spent way too long catching up on the last 20 pages. A couple random thoughts: - joined the discord thanks to the person who shared that link! - if I was Obama (maybe I am??) I would have let today's message be about Joe. They have so much history together and I think it was really respectful for him to take this moment just to honor Joe. He'll obviously come out in support of Kamala soon and that'll be another cute little news hit following all the other dem statements supporting her - go figure the only people on social media being loud about buttigieg are the white gays. They seriously do not realize his lack of support among black voters. Why on earth would Kamala pick him. So unserious. - I want a group hug Why do some people still want Buttigieg to happen?
CaptainMusic Posted July 22 Posted July 22 Kamala picking Buttigieg would be the dumbest move ever. 8 2
eyeroll Posted July 22 Posted July 22 2 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Why do some people still want Buttigieg to happen? He's a super effective communicator but otherwise I just think it's the problematic gays being horny and ignorant. Pete is probably one of the only politicians they can even name. I used to volunteer for human rights campaign, but once Pete came into national consciousness, I felt like I blinked and realized I was surrounded by a cult of white gays who only cared about supporting him because they felt "represented" by him. I stopped volunteering for them so fast. I'd obviously love some lgbtq representation on the ticket one day, but now is not that time and Pete is not that person. 1
wastedpotential Posted July 22 Posted July 22 13 minutes ago, That Bad Eartha said: I don't really think anyone has any illusions that this is an election where any major institutional change is possible (2016/2020 were our best chances for that if Dems weren't so awful). We all know it is purely about preventing Trump from getting in office again (and if we can't do that at least getting the house back so he doesn't have unchecked power). I mean even in this thread you have some of our most firm progressive voices largely aligned behind Kamala and I promise you it isn't because we're crazy in love with her as a politician. True, there does seem to be an understanding of holding the line regardless of the specifics, but I'm doubtful that attitudes will be similar in 108 days. We can address this again the week before the election if the most ardently progressive ATRLers are still backing Kamala, but I'm not counting on it. Biden already had losing margins and once people move on from gagging over coconuts and brat branding, what's left? She needs a ~8-10% gain across the board over where Biden was last week to have a legit shot at beating Trump in enough places, and where does that come from if not policy? Shapiro may bring that in PA and that could be significant, but his beliefs re Israel will likely cut into MI even further, and I'm doubtful Beshear or Kelly or Cooper or Wes Moore or whoever else will bring more than 2-3% in their targeted states There's truth to increased chances of a gain in the House down-ballot (losing the Senate at the same time, but it's better than a total loss), but I'm not sure I feel confident in Hakeem Jeffries' ability to single-handedly prevent Trump and (presumably) Rick Scott and John Roberts from doing their worst 2 1
midnightdawn Posted July 22 Posted July 22 23 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Yeah the idea that coconut tree/Charli XCX memes are indicative of a huge surge for Kamala is… At the end of the day she's a huge underdog coming into the race in the eleventh hour as a Hail Mary pass, and we have to be honest that some independent white male voters in swing states might just not be ready for a woc potus, even white women vote majority Republican. Kamala can be sunk by the worst parts of Biden's record but can't take full credit for the positives. I don't think less than some sort of promise of a better future will lure in the voters necessary to beat Trump this time. Yeah it's going to come down to a million or so voters in the rust belt and which way they go. And unless she can sell some sort of message about improving their lives and their economic futures I don't see how she can win. Trump has a lot of flaws but his brand of being a successful self-made businessman is very effective against Democrat career politicians.
Mr. Mendes Posted July 22 Posted July 22 2 hours ago, GraceRandolph said: It's still in the realm of possibility. It truly, and I cannot emphasize this enough, is not. 1
Mr. Mendes Posted July 22 Posted July 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Blade Runner said: Hopefully this won't be another Hillary situation. Praying for y'all. I don't think it will turn out quite like Hillary on the pure basis that Kamala Harris may not be super well liked but there is nowhere close to the level of disdain on both sides of the aisle for her as there was (and still is) for Hillary. Kamala's real battle here is being a woman of color. Hillary's was partly being a woman, but also in a large just being really unliked by people from all political walks of life. She won the popular vote but make no mistake, she lost the college not because people in key states voted for Trump, but because people there were so turned off by them both that they didn't vote period. Not voting at all always is going to swing in favor of Republicans because Republican voters are blindly loyal to the party. The left is not. There are positives and negatives to that. And to be clear, I don't solely blame those who didn't vote in 2016 for Trump. I do in part, absolutely, and they deserve part of the blame. But the Democrats as an institution and Hillary herself also deserve blame because that campaign was historically bad. Edited July 22 by Mr. Mendes
Mr. Mendes Posted July 22 Posted July 22 1 hour ago, ShadeIena said: Why don't you guys ever consider voting for a third party? As long as we have an electoral college system, a third party candidate will never, ever win the presidency. To vote for a candidate that is sure to lose is a waste. If we want to introduce third party candidates as potentially viable winners, we first have to find and elect Democrats and Republicans who're willing to legislate the electoral college system out of existence. And good ******* luck with that. Maybe someday but none of us are going to live to see it.
Recommended Posts