ClashAndBurn Posted July 14, 2022 Posted July 14, 2022 The way you can be as Trumpian with your policies as can be, but all that makes the difference whether you’re beloved or reviled is whether or not you have a D next to your name. Trump could have had the exact same policies, and he would be celebrated by the media as long as he was a Democrat.
rihannabiggestfan Posted July 14, 2022 Posted July 14, 2022 16 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: The way you can be as Trumpian with your policies as can be, but all that makes the difference whether you’re beloved or reviled is whether or not you have a D next to your name. Trump could have had the exact same policies, and he would be celebrated by the media as long as he was a Democrat. Good thing progressives are smarter than them. We actually support policy, not a () letter.
Thuggin Posted July 14, 2022 Posted July 14, 2022 26 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: The way you can be as Trumpian with your policies as can be, but all that makes the difference whether you’re beloved or reviled is whether or not you have a D next to your name. Trump could have had the exact same policies, and he would be celebrated by the media as long as he was a Democrat. Democrats acting like the tech being used was their initial reasoning for their objection to "Build the wall!" Can't wait for them to find new innovative ways to out-right Republicans when it comes to the police too.
rihannabiggestfan Posted July 14, 2022 Posted July 14, 2022 21 minutes ago, Thuggin said: Democrats acting like the tech being used was their initial reasoning for their objection to "Build the wall!" Can't wait for them to find new innovative ways to out-right Republicans when it comes to the police too. Their favorite pastime Like, if you're so right-wing that you're out-right-winging Republicans, then just come out as Ultra MAGA already
Communion Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 54 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: The way you can be as Trumpian with your policies as can be, but all that makes the difference whether you’re beloved or reviled is whether or not you have a D next to your name. Trump could have had the exact same policies, and he would be celebrated by the media as long as he was a Democrat. Can't imagine why this party is underwater with young Latinos aka the fastest growing demographic in America.
Cruel Summer Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Thuggin said: Remember a few years back when right wing Christian fundamentalists had to pretend to care about women and gays in their crusade against Islamic fundamentalism? They want the exact same things...but in white and guided by a different mythical book. The right-wing obsession with the ******* birth rate of white people disturbs me every single time I have to encounter it.
rihannabiggestfan Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Communion said: Can't imagine why this party is underwater with young Latinos aka the fastest growing demographic in America. Because this party keeps shouting "bErNiE's nOt a dEmOcRaT!1", and young Latinos respond with "maybe because Democrats suck" --- And when I read Clash's post, I thought of this nnn (the shade, and that emoticon in particular killed me) like ... considering the Democrat establishment has gone so far right (Democrats have become Republicans and Republicans have become [Ultra] MAGA), he might as well (Trump vs DeSantis General Election) Edited July 15, 2022 by rihannabiggestfan
rihannabiggestfan Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Thuggin said: Remember a few years back when right wing Christian fundamentalists had to pretend to care about women and gays in their crusade against Islamic fundamentalism? They want the exact same things...but in white and guided by a different mythical book. An idiot
Kassi Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 19 hours ago, Thuggin said: Primary turnout is always low compared to general elections, and Democratic primary voters are not representative of general election voters. Also, young voters turned out in record numbers in the general for Biden, so I don't know why you assume they wouldn't turn out even more for Bernie. If you truly believe this, then you fundamentally have zero clue what goes on on the left. There is so much disagreement and infighting among Bernie supporters and on the left in general. Bernie supporters have given him **** all the time whenever he's been too soft on Israel, too positive about the Biden administration, too validating of Russiagate, not supportive of Force the Vote, supportive of the Democratic Party, just to name a few examples. Whereas I have never see ANY Hillary/Biden/Obama supporters hold them accountable for literally anything. The closest thing that approaches a criticism of Bernie is the occasional “Bernie is doing a thing we don’t like, but we’re sure he has his reasons.” And this is very occasional. 99% of leftist publications, like, say, Jacobin's, Bernie content is how he was formed when Gaia planted the first seeds in the earth. Imagine writing this while simultaneously calling for a younger generation to lead when referring to Biden.
teresaguidice Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 immediately after the midterms, biden needs to announce he's not running for reelection and he wants to pass the baton to the next generation, that he's fully supportive of an open primary, and he's going to spend the next two years focusing purely on inflation, appointing judges, etc. his approvals would go up by 20 points and he'd retire with some dignity instead of running himself ragged trying to campaign and losing in a humiliating defeat. but i know he, like all politicians, are not capable of such introspection and humility.
rihannabiggestfan Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, teresaguidice said: immediately after the midterms, biden needs to announce he's not running for reelection and he wants to pass the baton to the next generation, that he's fully supportive of an open primary, and he's going to spend the next two years focusing purely on inflation, appointing judges, etc. his approvals would go up by 20 points and he'd retire with some dignity instead of running himself ragged trying to campaign and losing in a humiliating defeat. but i know he, like all politicians, are not capable of such introspection and humility. I'd say like over 99% of politicians. Biden COULD pull a "Lyndon B. Johnson shocked the nation when he announced he would not run for re-election by concluding with the line: 'I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party for another term as your President.' The next day, the president's approval ratings increased from 36 percent to 49 percent", but he won't because he's a toxic, arrogant, spiteful, and POWER-HUNGRY corrupt career politician Edited July 15, 2022 by rihannabiggestfan
Cruel Summer Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 39 minutes ago, Kassi said: Imagine writing this while simultaneously calling for a younger generation to lead when referring to Biden. Imagine pretending that you don’t understand that the reason leftists are willing to support another Bernie run is that your conservative party has systemically crushed almost anyone else who ever actually wanted progress for anyone under a mid-six figures income bracket so there’s not many other options who would get enough asses off couches to make a difference in the miserable hellish lives that working people are trudging through every day because they don’t believe any of your Pelosi’d idols will ever fix anything or allow them enough of a voice to find someone else to fix anything
ClashAndBurn Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 Bernie may be older than Biden, but he certainly has a younger mindset than the president who has waited his entire life for a chance to undo the good of the FDR Administration and cut Social Security. Biden's brain is stuck in the Prohibition Era of the 1920s, which is why his ass still won't push for marijuana legalization. Y'all realize that's the "reaching across the aisle" and "deal-making" he was referring to during the primaries, right? You can bet that winning those two Georgia Senate races was the biggest disappointment of Biden's entire career, seeing as he loves Mitch McConnell and was probably looking forward to working with him over Chuck Schumer hounding him over student debt.
Kassi Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 20 hours ago, Thuggin said: Also, a few of Bernie's accomplishments: Provided 9 million more Americans with primary healthcare, 2 million more with dental care, and 860,000 more with mental health services through a $12.5 billion expansion in community health centers Raised the wages of 350,000 Amazon workers to $15 an hour Increased the wages of over 60,000 Disney workers to at least $15 an hour Restored $320 million in pension benefits to 130,000 IBM workers Passed veterans legislation with John McCain, providing $5 billion to hire more doctors and nurses at the VA Passed first and only audit of the Federal Reserve in 2010 Prevented Social Security cuts to seniors and disabled veterans Passed the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund Act Passed more roll call amendments than anyone in a Republican Congress Passed $3.2 billion in Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy grants Raised wages of federal contractors to at least $10.10 an hour in 2014 Banned the credit card interest rate bait and switch scam Doubled funding for the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program Created the Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserve Stopped bailed-out banks from replacing US workers with low-wage guest workers Mandated free credit reports for all Americans Or how about shifting the entire Overton window in the US left? The progressive movement was almost nonexistent in the mainstream, with the exception of The Young Turks, before he ran for President, and by the time the 2020 Democratic primaries were happening you had most candidates at least pretending to be progressive. How about the massive increase in unionization this year? I would attribute a large part of those Amazon and Starbucks unionization victories to his movement and the efforts of other progressive politicians he inspired to run for office in the first place. What is Hillary's biggest accomplishment? An open slave market in Libya? That list is so wildly inaccurate and largely made up that it's so sad. Some of them aren't even actions a Senator is empowered to take. That's how you know he has very little to show for his decades in Congress. This is the actual truth: Providing 9 million more Americans with primary health care, 2 million more with dental care and 860,000 more with mental health services through a $12.5 billion expansion in community health centers. - TRUE! - An amendment to Pelosi’s landmark ACA. Probably one of the few real things he's ever done. Yet, dummies in here will lie that the ACA was a Republican plan to discount Pelosi, while simultaneously unaware they're also discounting Bernie. Raising the wages of 350,000 Amazon workers to at least $15 an hour. FALSE! - Bernie does NOT, in fact, run Amazon. Increasing the wages of over 60,000 Disney workers to at least $15 an hour. FALSE! - Bernie does NOT, in fact, run Disney. Restoring $320 million in pension benefits to 130,000 IBM workers. FALSE! - Bernie’s 2004 amendment aimed at IBM did NOT make it into a bill. IBM simply settled a lawsuit like all big companies do. 7 states and over 40 cities passed $15 an hour minimum wage laws. FALSE! - Bernie is a Senator from Vermont, a state without a $15 minimum wage. He does get to take credit for other states' hard work. Passage of veterans legislation with John McCain providing $5 billion to hire more doctors and nurses for the VA. TRUE! - This Republican bill, introduced by Hal Rogers (R-KY), handily passed both chambers. Sanders helped sand down the edges. Passage of legislation ending our involvement in Saudi-led war in Yemen. FALSE! - We’re still in Yemen. In fact, Bernie JUST posted about ending the war in Yemen. Passage of the first and only audit of the Federal Reserve in 2010. FALSE! - The Fed is audited every year thanks to Obama’s Dodd-Frank. Passage of the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund Act. FALSE! - Didn't even get a vote. Preventing Social Security cuts to seniors and disabled veterans. TRUE! - You know what, sure, why not? This is so vague it could apply to anyone left of center. Stopping the Postal Service from closing 15,000 post offices and over 100 mail processing plants, ending Saturday mail and slashing over 100,000 jobs. FALSE! - Bernie blocked Obama’s nominees to the Board of Governors, giving Trump total control of the board and leading to DeJoy, who famously did pretty much everything Bernie was trying to prevent. Performative politics has consequences. Passing more roll call amendments than anyone in a Republican Congress. TRUE! - Sure. Let’s stick with just roll call amendments. Cause he’s not seeing others in overall amendments. Passing $3.2 billion in Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy grants. TRUE! - Sure. I couldn’t verify this, but Dems have done so much around climate already that I'm sure Bernie probably got his foot wet on the back of like one of Manchin's or Markey’s energy bills or something. Raising wages to federal contractors to at least $10.10 an hour in 2014. FALSE! - Obama did this. And Biden did it again with $15 in 2021. Banning the credit card interest rate bait and switch scam. TRUE! - It was part of the broad bank reforms of 2009. Sure, we can give him and every other Democrat credit for this. Doubling funding for the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program. TRUE! - Funding for LIHEAP, run by Health and Human Services, occurs on an ongoing basis (e.g. both Biden’s ARP and BIF will dump billions into it). But sure, why not. I can see him being part of a group of Senators pushing for funding of this program as part of a regular spending bill. Creating the Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserve. FALSE! - Bill Clinton did that. Stopping bailed-out banks from replacing U.S. workers with low-wage guest workers. FALSE! - Because it didn’t even get a vote. But TRUE that he supported insurrectionist Chuck Grassley’s (R-IA) xenophobic amendment to prevent banks from hiring H2B visa workers during tough economic times. Prohibiting the Importation of goods made by forced or indentured child labor. FALSE! - Didn’t even get a vote. Mandating free credit reports for all Americans. FALSE! - Didn’t even get a vote. Aside from the ACA amendment, the things that are true in this list are lowball congressional actions most legislators eventually get around to doing (and many aren't even in Congress for 30 years). If this is ya'lls idea of achievement, I never want to hear another nasty word toward Pelosi again. As for the Overton Window, it's a fictional concept disproved by basically all political science research. The entire point of the theory is that the range of acceptable opinions is fixed, and if it moves to the left, the former left becomes center and the former right vanishes. But it obviously doesn’t work like that. The left is getting lefter and the right has veered off a cliff into authoritarianism. The only relevant theory is the median voter theorem, whereby politicians gravitate toward the position occupied by their median voters. And Democratic voters today are much more open to big government policies, many of which have been floating around the Democratic party for decades, but without the coalition to ensure passage. It's that shift in left-leaning voter sentiment (largely precipitated by the 2008 financial crash, see: Occupy Wallstreet Movement) that even gave Bernie a platform, not the other way around. It's like trying to say the right-wing movement didn't exist until Trump ran, when the right has always been trying to ban abortions and steal elections (see: Al Gore). Similarly, Democrats have always been trying to pass single payer, even as far back as 30 years ago under the Clinton administration. As for the spike in union activity, like the 2008 financial crash before it, COVID-19 upending lives in an even bigger way is probably the single largest contributing factor. The fact of electing the most pro-union President in a lifetime builds on that. And then, sure, Bernie Sander's stump speeches probably provide a tertiary effect. All this exercise has revealed is that Bernie is a very AVERAGE congressman. And I hope we can all take that to heart and stop deifying his mediocre existence.
rihannabiggestfan Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 24 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: Bernie may be older than Biden yet, ironically, we know what they mean by that tho!
rihannafan Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Kassi said: That list is so wildly inaccurate and largely made up that it's so sad. Some of them aren't even actions a Senator is empowered to take. That's how you know he has very little to show for his decades in Congress. This is the actual truth: Providing 9 million more Americans with primary health care, 2 million more with dental care and 860,000 more with mental health services through a $12.5 billion expansion in community health centers. - TRUE! - An amendment to Pelosi’s landmark ACA. Probably one of the few real things he's ever done. Yet, dummies in here will lie that the ACA was a Republican plan to discount Pelosi, while simultaneously unaware they're also discounting Bernie. Raising the wages of 350,000 Amazon workers to at least $15 an hour. FALSE! - Bernie does NOT, in fact, run Amazon. Increasing the wages of over 60,000 Disney workers to at least $15 an hour. FALSE! - Bernie does NOT, in fact, run Disney. Restoring $320 million in pension benefits to 130,000 IBM workers. FALSE! - Bernie’s 2004 amendment aimed at IBM did NOT make it into a bill. IBM simply settled a lawsuit like all big companies do. 7 states and over 40 cities passed $15 an hour minimum wage laws. FALSE! - Bernie is a Senator from Vermont, a state without a $15 minimum wage. He does get to take credit for other states' hard work. Passage of veterans legislation with John McCain providing $5 billion to hire more doctors and nurses for the VA. TRUE! - This Republican bill, introduced by Hal Rogers (R-KY), handily passed both chambers. Sanders helped sand down the edges. Passage of legislation ending our involvement in Saudi-led war in Yemen. FALSE! - We’re still in Yemen. In fact, Bernie JUST posted about ending the war in Yemen. Passage of the first and only audit of the Federal Reserve in 2010. FALSE! - The Fed is audited every year thanks to Obama’s Dodd-Frank. Passage of the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund Act. FALSE! - Didn't even get a vote. Preventing Social Security cuts to seniors and disabled veterans. TRUE! - You know what, sure, why not? This is so vague it could apply to anyone left of center. Stopping the Postal Service from closing 15,000 post offices and over 100 mail processing plants, ending Saturday mail and slashing over 100,000 jobs. FALSE! - Bernie blocked Obama’s nominees to the Board of Governors, giving Trump total control of the board and leading to DeJoy, who famously did pretty much everything Bernie was trying to prevent. Performative politics has consequences. Passing more roll call amendments than anyone in a Republican Congress. TRUE! - Sure. Let’s stick with just roll call amendments. Cause he’s not seeing others in overall amendments. Passing $3.2 billion in Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy grants. TRUE! - Sure. I couldn’t verify this, but Dems have done so much around climate already that I'm sure Bernie probably got his foot wet on the back of like one of Manchin's or Markey’s energy bills or something. Raising wages to federal contractors to at least $10.10 an hour in 2014. FALSE! - Obama did this. And Biden did it again with $15 in 2021. Banning the credit card interest rate bait and switch scam. TRUE! - It was part of the broad bank reforms of 2009. Sure, we can give him and every other Democrat credit for this. Doubling funding for the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program. TRUE! - Funding for LIHEAP, run by Health and Human Services, occurs on an ongoing basis (e.g. both Biden’s ARP and BIF will dump billions into it). But sure, why not. I can see him being part of a group of Senators pushing for funding of this program as part of a regular spending bill. Creating the Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserve. FALSE! - Bill Clinton did that. Stopping bailed-out banks from replacing U.S. workers with low-wage guest workers. FALSE! - Because it didn’t even get a vote. But TRUE that he supported insurrectionist Chuck Grassley’s (R-IA) xenophobic amendment to prevent banks from hiring H2B visa workers during tough economic times. Prohibiting the Importation of goods made by forced or indentured child labor. FALSE! - Didn’t even get a vote. Mandating free credit reports for all Americans. FALSE! - Didn’t even get a vote. Aside from the ACA amendment, the things that are true in this list are lowball congressional actions most legislators eventually get around to doing (and many aren't even in Congress for 30 years). If this is ya'lls idea of achievement, I never want to hear another nasty word toward Pelosi again. As for the Overton Window, it's a fictional concept disproved by basically all political science research. The entire point of the theory is that the range of acceptable opinions is fixed, and if it moves to the left, the former left becomes center and the former right vanishes. But it obviously doesn’t work like that. The left is getting lefter and the right has veered off a cliff into authoritarianism. The only relevant theory is the median voter theorem, whereby politicians gravitate toward the position occupied by their median voters. And Democratic voters today are much more open to big government policies, many of which have been floating around the Democratic party for decades, but without the coalition to ensure passage. It's that shift in left-leaning voter sentiment (largely precipitated by the 2008 financial crash, see: Occupy Wallstreet Movement) that even gave Bernie a platform, not the other way around. It's like trying to say the right-wing movement didn't exist until Trump ran, when the right has always been trying to ban abortions and steal elections (see: Al Gore). Similarly, Democrats have always been trying to pass single payer, even as far back as 30 years ago under the Clinton administration. As for the spike in union activity, like the 2008 financial crash before it, COVID-19 upending lives in an even bigger way is probably the single largest contributing factor. The fact of electing the most pro-union President in a lifetime builds on that. And then, sure, Bernie Sander's stump speeches probably provide a tertiary effect. All this exercise has revealed is that Bernie is a very AVERAGE congressman. And I hope we can all take that to heart and stop deifying his mediocre existence. Did you publish anything in the Washington Post fact checking section recently?
rihannabiggestfan Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, rihannafan said: Did you publish anything in the Washington Post fact checking section recently?
getBusy Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 I went to the NYTimes and literally the first word I read is MANCHIN. Day ruined.
Harrier Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 16 hours ago, Thuggin said: Remember a few years back when right wing Christian fundamentalists had to pretend to care about women and gays in their crusade against Islamic fundamentalism? They want the exact same things...but in white and guided by a different mythical book. This is the man that was caught watching trans x femboy illicit content... these people are so disgusting and hypocritical. I don't care if Nick is just a troll I wish nothing but bad things on him
frenchyisback Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Kassi said: That list is so wildly inaccurate and largely made up that it's so sad. Some of them aren't even actions a Senator is empowered to take. That's how you know he has very little to show for his decades in Congress. This is the actual truth: Providing 9 million more Americans with primary health care, 2 million more with dental care and 860,000 more with mental health services through a $12.5 billion expansion in community health centers. - TRUE! - An amendment to Pelosi’s landmark ACA. Probably one of the few real things he's ever done. Yet, dummies in here will lie that the ACA was a Republican plan to discount Pelosi, while simultaneously unaware they're also discounting Bernie. Raising the wages of 350,000 Amazon workers to at least $15 an hour. FALSE! - Bernie does NOT, in fact, run Amazon. Increasing the wages of over 60,000 Disney workers to at least $15 an hour. FALSE! - Bernie does NOT, in fact, run Disney. Restoring $320 million in pension benefits to 130,000 IBM workers. FALSE! - Bernie’s 2004 amendment aimed at IBM did NOT make it into a bill. IBM simply settled a lawsuit like all big companies do. 7 states and over 40 cities passed $15 an hour minimum wage laws. FALSE! - Bernie is a Senator from Vermont, a state without a $15 minimum wage. He does get to take credit for other states' hard work. Passage of veterans legislation with John McCain providing $5 billion to hire more doctors and nurses for the VA. TRUE! - This Republican bill, introduced by Hal Rogers (R-KY), handily passed both chambers. Sanders helped sand down the edges. Passage of legislation ending our involvement in Saudi-led war in Yemen. FALSE! - We’re still in Yemen. In fact, Bernie JUST posted about ending the war in Yemen. Passage of the first and only audit of the Federal Reserve in 2010. FALSE! - The Fed is audited every year thanks to Obama’s Dodd-Frank. Passage of the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund Act. FALSE! - Didn't even get a vote. Preventing Social Security cuts to seniors and disabled veterans. TRUE! - You know what, sure, why not? This is so vague it could apply to anyone left of center. Stopping the Postal Service from closing 15,000 post offices and over 100 mail processing plants, ending Saturday mail and slashing over 100,000 jobs. FALSE! - Bernie blocked Obama’s nominees to the Board of Governors, giving Trump total control of the board and leading to DeJoy, who famously did pretty much everything Bernie was trying to prevent. Performative politics has consequences. Passing more roll call amendments than anyone in a Republican Congress. TRUE! - Sure. Let’s stick with just roll call amendments. Cause he’s not seeing others in overall amendments. Passing $3.2 billion in Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy grants. TRUE! - Sure. I couldn’t verify this, but Dems have done so much around climate already that I'm sure Bernie probably got his foot wet on the back of like one of Manchin's or Markey’s energy bills or something. Raising wages to federal contractors to at least $10.10 an hour in 2014. FALSE! - Obama did this. And Biden did it again with $15 in 2021. Banning the credit card interest rate bait and switch scam. TRUE! - It was part of the broad bank reforms of 2009. Sure, we can give him and every other Democrat credit for this. Doubling funding for the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program. TRUE! - Funding for LIHEAP, run by Health and Human Services, occurs on an ongoing basis (e.g. both Biden’s ARP and BIF will dump billions into it). But sure, why not. I can see him being part of a group of Senators pushing for funding of this program as part of a regular spending bill. Creating the Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserve. FALSE! - Bill Clinton did that. Stopping bailed-out banks from replacing U.S. workers with low-wage guest workers. FALSE! - Because it didn’t even get a vote. But TRUE that he supported insurrectionist Chuck Grassley’s (R-IA) xenophobic amendment to prevent banks from hiring H2B visa workers during tough economic times. Prohibiting the Importation of goods made by forced or indentured child labor. FALSE! - Didn’t even get a vote. Mandating free credit reports for all Americans. FALSE! - Didn’t even get a vote. Aside from the ACA amendment, the things that are true in this list are lowball congressional actions most legislators eventually get around to doing (and many aren't even in Congress for 30 years). If this is ya'lls idea of achievement, I never want to hear another nasty word toward Pelosi again. As for the Overton Window, it's a fictional concept disproved by basically all political science research. The entire point of the theory is that the range of acceptable opinions is fixed, and if it moves to the left, the former left becomes center and the former right vanishes. But it obviously doesn’t work like that. The left is getting lefter and the right has veered off a cliff into authoritarianism. The only relevant theory is the median voter theorem, whereby politicians gravitate toward the position occupied by their median voters. And Democratic voters today are much more open to big government policies, many of which have been floating around the Democratic party for decades, but without the coalition to ensure passage. It's that shift in left-leaning voter sentiment (largely precipitated by the 2008 financial crash, see: Occupy Wallstreet Movement) that even gave Bernie a platform, not the other way around. It's like trying to say the right-wing movement didn't exist until Trump ran, when the right has always been trying to ban abortions and steal elections (see: Al Gore). Similarly, Democrats have always been trying to pass single payer, even as far back as 30 years ago under the Clinton administration. As for the spike in union activity, like the 2008 financial crash before it, COVID-19 upending lives in an even bigger way is probably the single largest contributing factor. The fact of electing the most pro-union President in a lifetime builds on that. And then, sure, Bernie Sander's stump speeches probably provide a tertiary effect. All this exercise has revealed is that Bernie is a very AVERAGE congressman. And I hope we can all take that to heart and stop deifying his mediocre existence. Truly Inspiring. Teh fact that they are trying to give SENATOR Sanders credit for EXECUTIVE actions The despair is real Edited July 15, 2022 by frenchyisback
Communion Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 11 hours ago, Kassi said: That list is so wildly inaccurate and largely made up that it's so sad. Some of them aren't even actions a Senator is empowered to take. That's how you know he has very little to show for his decades in Congress. This is the actual truth: Providing 9 million more Americans with primary health care, 2 million more with dental care and 860,000 more with mental health services through a $12.5 billion expansion in community health centers. - TRUE! - An amendment to Pelosi’s landmark ACA. Probably one of the few real things he's ever done. Yet, dummies in here will lie that the ACA was a Republican plan to discount Pelosi, while simultaneously unaware they're also discounting Bernie. Raising the wages of 350,000 Amazon workers to at least $15 an hour. FALSE! - Bernie does NOT, in fact, run Amazon. Increasing the wages of over 60,000 Disney workers to at least $15 an hour. FALSE! - Bernie does NOT, in fact, run Disney. Restoring $320 million in pension benefits to 130,000 IBM workers. FALSE! - Bernie’s 2004 amendment aimed at IBM did NOT make it into a bill. IBM simply settled a lawsuit like all big companies do. 7 states and over 40 cities passed $15 an hour minimum wage laws. FALSE! - Bernie is a Senator from Vermont, a state without a $15 minimum wage. He does get to take credit for other states' hard work. Passage of veterans legislation with John McCain providing $5 billion to hire more doctors and nurses for the VA. TRUE! - This Republican bill, introduced by Hal Rogers (R-KY), handily passed both chambers. Sanders helped sand down the edges. Passage of legislation ending our involvement in Saudi-led war in Yemen. FALSE! - We’re still in Yemen. In fact, Bernie JUST posted about ending the war in Yemen. Passage of the first and only audit of the Federal Reserve in 2010. FALSE! - The Fed is audited every year thanks to Obama’s Dodd-Frank. Passage of the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund Act. FALSE! - Didn't even get a vote. Preventing Social Security cuts to seniors and disabled veterans. TRUE! - You know what, sure, why not? This is so vague it could apply to anyone left of center. Stopping the Postal Service from closing 15,000 post offices and over 100 mail processing plants, ending Saturday mail and slashing over 100,000 jobs. FALSE! - Bernie blocked Obama’s nominees to the Board of Governors, giving Trump total control of the board and leading to DeJoy, who famously did pretty much everything Bernie was trying to prevent. Performative politics has consequences. Passing more roll call amendments than anyone in a Republican Congress. TRUE! - Sure. Let’s stick with just roll call amendments. Cause he’s not seeing others in overall amendments. Passing $3.2 billion in Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy grants. TRUE! - Sure. I couldn’t verify this, but Dems have done so much around climate already that I'm sure Bernie probably got his foot wet on the back of like one of Manchin's or Markey’s energy bills or something. Raising wages to federal contractors to at least $10.10 an hour in 2014. FALSE! - Obama did this. And Biden did it again with $15 in 2021. Banning the credit card interest rate bait and switch scam. TRUE! - It was part of the broad bank reforms of 2009. Sure, we can give him and every other Democrat credit for this. Doubling funding for the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program. TRUE! - Funding for LIHEAP, run by Health and Human Services, occurs on an ongoing basis (e.g. both Biden’s ARP and BIF will dump billions into it). But sure, why not. I can see him being part of a group of Senators pushing for funding of this program as part of a regular spending bill. Creating the Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserve. FALSE! - Bill Clinton did that. Stopping bailed-out banks from replacing U.S. workers with low-wage guest workers. FALSE! - Because it didn’t even get a vote. But TRUE that he supported insurrectionist Chuck Grassley’s (R-IA) xenophobic amendment to prevent banks from hiring H2B visa workers during tough economic times. Prohibiting the Importation of goods made by forced or indentured child labor. FALSE! - Didn’t even get a vote. Mandating free credit reports for all Americans. FALSE! - Didn’t even get a vote. Aside from the ACA amendment, the things that are true in this list are lowball congressional actions most legislators eventually get around to doing (and many aren't even in Congress for 30 years). If this is ya'lls idea of achievement, I never want to hear another nasty word toward Pelosi again. As for the Overton Window, it's a fictional concept disproved by basically all political science research. The entire point of the theory is that the range of acceptable opinions is fixed, and if it moves to the left, the former left becomes center and the former right vanishes. But it obviously doesn’t work like that. The left is getting lefter and the right has veered off a cliff into authoritarianism. The only relevant theory is the median voter theorem, whereby politicians gravitate toward the position occupied by their median voters. And Democratic voters today are much more open to big government policies, many of which have been floating around the Democratic party for decades, but without the coalition to ensure passage. It's that shift in left-leaning voter sentiment (largely precipitated by the 2008 financial crash, see: Occupy Wallstreet Movement) that even gave Bernie a platform, not the other way around. It's like trying to say the right-wing movement didn't exist until Trump ran, when the right has always been trying to ban abortions and steal elections (see: Al Gore). Similarly, Democrats have always been trying to pass single payer, even as far back as 30 years ago under the Clinton administration. As for the spike in union activity, like the 2008 financial crash before it, COVID-19 upending lives in an even bigger way is probably the single largest contributing factor. The fact of electing the most pro-union President in a lifetime builds on that. And then, sure, Bernie Sander's stump speeches probably provide a tertiary effect. All this exercise has revealed is that Bernie is a very AVERAGE congressman. And I hope we can all take that to heart and stop deifying his mediocre existence. Rich people go grrr Bernie bad!!
Communion Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 13 minutes ago, frenchyisback said: Truly Inspiring Just now, Communion said: Rich people go grrr Bernie bad!! People who don't wanna give their workers sick days go grrrrr Bernie bad!!!
Kassi Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 1 hour ago, frenchyisback said: Truly Inspiring. Teh fact that they are trying to give SENATOR Sanders credit for EXECUTIVE actions The despair is real They're the type of people to count speeches as action, but for literally NO ONE OTHER than Bernie. Because they need him to be something he's clearly not. The COVID bill was probably the most recent egregious example of that delusion: When, in reality, The unemployment was already in the COVID bill courtesy of Michael Bennet (D-CO). Three Republican Senators introduced an amendment to put a hold on the unemployment provision Bernie threatened to "hold up" the entire COVID bill if it was included The ACTUAL vote on the Republican amendment to strike unemployment failed 48-48 on a party line vote. Their narrative: Bernie personally defeated the amendment that failed by 12 votes. Ahh! What a ******* LEGEND!
rihannabiggestfan Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 The American people notice that it's always the most deplorable and corrupt people who are Obsessed Bernie Haters, and that's part of the reason that Bernie has higher favorability than his neolib peers. If Satan hates you, for instance, you know you're pretty awesome.
Thuggin Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 13 hours ago, Kassi said: That list is so wildly inaccurate and largely made up that it's so sad. Some of them aren't even actions a Senator is empowered to take. That's how you know he has very little to show for his decades in Congress. This is the actual truth: Providing 9 million more Americans with primary health care, 2 million more with dental care and 860,000 more with mental health services through a $12.5 billion expansion in community health centers. - TRUE! - An amendment to Pelosi’s landmark ACA. Probably one of the few real things he's ever done. Yet, dummies in here will lie that the ACA was a Republican plan to discount Pelosi, while simultaneously unaware they're also discounting Bernie. Raising the wages of 350,000 Amazon workers to at least $15 an hour. FALSE! - Bernie does NOT, in fact, run Amazon. Increasing the wages of over 60,000 Disney workers to at least $15 an hour. FALSE! - Bernie does NOT, in fact, run Disney. Restoring $320 million in pension benefits to 130,000 IBM workers. FALSE! - Bernie’s 2004 amendment aimed at IBM did NOT make it into a bill. IBM simply settled a lawsuit like all big companies do. 7 states and over 40 cities passed $15 an hour minimum wage laws. FALSE! - Bernie is a Senator from Vermont, a state without a $15 minimum wage. He does get to take credit for other states' hard work. Passage of veterans legislation with John McCain providing $5 billion to hire more doctors and nurses for the VA. TRUE! - This Republican bill, introduced by Hal Rogers (R-KY), handily passed both chambers. Sanders helped sand down the edges. Passage of legislation ending our involvement in Saudi-led war in Yemen. FALSE! - We’re still in Yemen. In fact, Bernie JUST posted about ending the war in Yemen. Passage of the first and only audit of the Federal Reserve in 2010. FALSE! - The Fed is audited every year thanks to Obama’s Dodd-Frank. Passage of the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund Act. FALSE! - Didn't even get a vote. Preventing Social Security cuts to seniors and disabled veterans. TRUE! - You know what, sure, why not? This is so vague it could apply to anyone left of center. Stopping the Postal Service from closing 15,000 post offices and over 100 mail processing plants, ending Saturday mail and slashing over 100,000 jobs. FALSE! - Bernie blocked Obama’s nominees to the Board of Governors, giving Trump total control of the board and leading to DeJoy, who famously did pretty much everything Bernie was trying to prevent. Performative politics has consequences. Passing more roll call amendments than anyone in a Republican Congress. TRUE! - Sure. Let’s stick with just roll call amendments. Cause he’s not seeing others in overall amendments. Passing $3.2 billion in Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy grants. TRUE! - Sure. I couldn’t verify this, but Dems have done so much around climate already that I'm sure Bernie probably got his foot wet on the back of like one of Manchin's or Markey’s energy bills or something. Raising wages to federal contractors to at least $10.10 an hour in 2014. FALSE! - Obama did this. And Biden did it again with $15 in 2021. Banning the credit card interest rate bait and switch scam. TRUE! - It was part of the broad bank reforms of 2009. Sure, we can give him and every other Democrat credit for this. Doubling funding for the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program. TRUE! - Funding for LIHEAP, run by Health and Human Services, occurs on an ongoing basis (e.g. both Biden’s ARP and BIF will dump billions into it). But sure, why not. I can see him being part of a group of Senators pushing for funding of this program as part of a regular spending bill. Creating the Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserve. FALSE! - Bill Clinton did that. Stopping bailed-out banks from replacing U.S. workers with low-wage guest workers. FALSE! - Because it didn’t even get a vote. But TRUE that he supported insurrectionist Chuck Grassley’s (R-IA) xenophobic amendment to prevent banks from hiring H2B visa workers during tough economic times. Prohibiting the Importation of goods made by forced or indentured child labor. FALSE! - Didn’t even get a vote. Mandating free credit reports for all Americans. FALSE! - Didn’t even get a vote. Aside from the ACA amendment, the things that are true in this list are lowball congressional actions most legislators eventually get around to doing (and many aren't even in Congress for 30 years). If this is ya'lls idea of achievement, I never want to hear another nasty word toward Pelosi again. As for the Overton Window, it's a fictional concept disproved by basically all political science research. The entire point of the theory is that the range of acceptable opinions is fixed, and if it moves to the left, the former left becomes center and the former right vanishes. But it obviously doesn’t work like that. The left is getting lefter and the right has veered off a cliff into authoritarianism. The only relevant theory is the median voter theorem, whereby politicians gravitate toward the position occupied by their median voters. And Democratic voters today are much more open to big government policies, many of which have been floating around the Democratic party for decades, but without the coalition to ensure passage. It's that shift in left-leaning voter sentiment (largely precipitated by the 2008 financial crash, see: Occupy Wallstreet Movement) that even gave Bernie a platform, not the other way around. It's like trying to say the right-wing movement didn't exist until Trump ran, when the right has always been trying to ban abortions and steal elections (see: Al Gore). Similarly, Democrats have always been trying to pass single payer, even as far back as 30 years ago under the Clinton administration. As for the spike in union activity, like the 2008 financial crash before it, COVID-19 upending lives in an even bigger way is probably the single largest contributing factor. The fact of electing the most pro-union President in a lifetime builds on that. And then, sure, Bernie Sander's stump speeches probably provide a tertiary effect. All this exercise has revealed is that Bernie is a very AVERAGE congressman. And I hope we can all take that to heart and stop deifying his mediocre existence. Okay PolitiFact. "Bernie doesn't LITERALLY decide what's on the paychecks of Amazon and Disney workers, therefore three Pinocchios!" Do you unironically believe the only measure of success of politicians is the pure number of bills that passed which they were the primary sponsor of? Also, you might want to re-check your list because a bunch of these I never even said. Bernie is on the veterans committee, is chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, serves on the Environment and Public Works Committee, is a member of the Energy and Resources Committee, and sits on the Health, Eduction, Labor, and Persons Committee, and he has influence beyond just sponsoring legislation. Bernie led rallies for Amazon and Disney workers, joined by veteran employees, and helped get the fights for minimum wage national attention. Bernie sent a letter to Obama in 2013 signed by 14 other senators in which he urged Obama to issue the executive order setting a minimum wage at $10.10 for federal contractors. Bernie has been maybe the central champion for a $15 minimum wage. Bernie introduced an amendment within Dodd-Frank to audit the emergency lending by the Federal Reserve during the financial crisis. Bernie DID lead an effort to keep the Postal Service from closing its plants, authored an amendment in 2015 putting 85 Senators on record against the closings, and then the Postal Service quietly backed off its plan. Bernie authored the Veterans' Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2013, which became law and increased benefits to certain disabled veterans, surviving spouses, and children of deceased veterans using the same percentage increase allocated to social security recipients. You can dismiss the power of a grassroots movement all you want. It is undeniable that Bernie inspired so many people to get politically involved who otherwise wouldn't have. The Overton window has shifted. Many progressive policy proposals, from Medicare For All to the Green New Deal to student debt cancellation, are popular among Americans, and it is only thanks to his efforts and the efforts of members of Congress he inspired to run for office in the first place. So many of these weren't even topics for discussion immediately prior to Bernie running for President the first time, and citing single payer being supported by some in the party decades ago is quite the dodge - no, I NEVER claimed Bernie literally invented the idea of single payer or was the only elected official to ever champion that cause prior to his campaign. Claiming Occupy is responsible for Bernie having a platform is just not true. The crash set the stage for both Occupy to happen and someone like Bernie to rally influence, you could possibly argue. Since you decided to bring up things like the US supported war in Yemen though, thank you for reminding me that Bernie vocally opposes that unlike many others in the party who would never support legislation to end our involvement! And that's supposed to be an argument against Bernie? That's an argument that the others should be primaried out and never elected to office again.
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