fan base Taylor Swift

[Clauss]

2 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

Whew, so many wrong takes in here: 

1- @wastedpotentialcheered, lori herself said she acted as the usual Taylor co-writer, she prepared tee and cheared her on.

2- @Timeless, there's a difference between the upper-middle-class/ wealthy environment Taylor grew up in, and the environment Jake and his Beverly Hills friends grew up in. Jake is literally a descendant of Swedish royalty or something. It's affluence/ generational old money vs wealthy normal people, and she makes that distinction clear in the song. Her family still had their feet on the ground while Jake and his circle are the type of people who like pretentious fads and self-help books. And I bet you think About Me is excellent, it's one of the best pure country songs in her discography. I think some of you need to stop spending time consuming r/neutralswifties and Baguettologist narratives and just enjoy the music.

preach

[Goaty]

Baguettologist 

[Timeless]

8 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

You're failing to understand the nuance of the comparison she was making. Taylor and her family lived in a nice house in a small city (as would make sense for her father as an investment banker in that small city) and I don't think anyone is calling her "ordinary middle class", but Jake and his family were a part of the 0.1% of the elite.

It's still pretty tone deaf to say "kitchen table bills" when she knew damn well they were very wealthy to the point that her dad even bought a share in Big Machine Records. Her singing the song with a country accent added to the effect as if she grew up on a small farm and her family was hard-knock working class.

IBYTAM really rubs me the wrong way I'm sorry 
 

[Goaty]

But yeah I find the wealth/upbringing comparison fine - it might feel a little outrageous because Taylor certainly didn’t grow up destitute - but Jake’s upbringing was probably so different and lavish that to him it probably did seem like she grew up poor  and in that case the hyperbole is also a subtle dig/mockery at his point of view 

[Timeless]

 

8 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

Whew, so many wrong takes in here: 

1- @wastedpotentialcheered, lori herself said she acted as the usual Taylor co-writer, she prepared tee and cheared her on.

2- @Timeless, there's a difference between the upper-middle-class/ wealthy environment Taylor grew up in, and the environment Jake and his Beverly Hills friends grew up in. Jake is literally a descendant of Swedish royalty or something. It's affluence/ generational old money vs wealthy normal people, and she makes that distinction clear in the song. Her family still had their feet on the ground while Jake and his circle are the type of people who like pretentious fads and self-help books. And I bet you think About Me is excellent, it's one of the best pure country songs in her discography. I think some of you need to stop spending time consuming r/neutralswifties and Baguettologist narratives and just enjoy the music.

So basically it's a comparison of rich VS very rich, wow very thoughtful

 

[Cleanromantic]

19 minutes ago, Timeless said:

"Hardcore country = good" meanwhile many of you here can't even handle the countryness of Debut which is very tame in comparison  calling it mIxTaPE and her worst album

She still acted as if she was soooo lower class that she simply couldn't compare to the wealth of Jack Gyllenhaal. Her house is practically a mansion no ordinary middle class men lives in such property. 

Mixtape is called bad because it's her most juvenile album . The songs lack perspective and maturity and the production sounds so dated honestly. The tv will update the production I'm sure but most of us are pushing 30/40, you can't expect us to relate to some things that a 15-year-old wrote. IBYTAM is scathing and the draggings are mature and cut deep because they're sung by an adult about an adult relationship. I can appreciate the songs on debut for being well crafted considering her age and for the nostalgia factor, but you can't compare "I'll tell my daddy that you're gay" to "scared not to be hip, scared to get old". 

[wastedpotential]

5 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

Whew, so many wrong takes in here: 

1- @wastedpotentialcheered, lori herself said she acted as the usual Taylor co-writer, she prepared tee and cheared her on.

2- @Timeless, there's a difference between the upper-middle-class/ wealthy environment Taylor grew up in, and the environment Jake and his Beverly Hills friends grew up in. Jake is literally a descendant of Swedish royalty or something. It's affluence/ generational old money vs wealthy normal people, and she makes that distinction clear in the song. Her family still had their feet on the ground while Jake and his circle are the type of people who like pretentious fads and self-help books. And I bet you think About Me is excellent, it's one of the best pure country songs in her discography. I think some of you need to stop spending time consuming r/neutralswifties and Baguettologist narratives and just enjoy the music.

I do agree that for the vast, vast majority of the song it was Taylor's vengeance and sharp pen with Lori just guiding, but "living room dancing/kitchen table bills" in particular has always stood out to me, because it's veryyyyy Lori McKenna style. I grew up listening to her music, and she uses mundanities like that (and actually has a couple references to just about that) all the time. "Three AM and I'm still awake..." and "Organic shoes/million dollar couch" and "you and I fell like an early spring snow", for instance, are all very Swiftian, but the first half of the second verse stands out to me as being distinctly Lori. 

[Cleanromantic]

Just now, Timeless said:

 

So basically it's a comparison of rich VS very rich, wow very thoughtful

 

yes, she's writing from her perspective and she is an outsider to that kind of wealth. Old money doesn't act the way Taylor acts, let's say that. 

[By the Water]

13 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

I think some of you need to stop spending time consuming r/neutralswifties and Baguettologist narratives and just enjoy the music.

The amount of fans that think like these people is crazy. They think they're enlightened or something. Like, IBTYTAM isn't that serious of a song, that's the whole point. Getting mad over a house that's neither a mansion nor the farm she talked about 

[Cleanromantic]

5 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

I do agree that for the vast, vast majority of the song it was Taylor's vengeance and sharp pen with Lori just guiding, but "living room dancing/kitchen table bills" in particular has always stood out to me, because it's veryyyyy Lori McKenna style. I grew up listening to her music, and she uses mundanities like that (and actually has a couple references to just about that) all the time. "Three AM and I'm still awake..." and "Organic shoes/million dollar couch" and "you and I fell like an early spring snow", for instance, are all very Swiftian, but the first half of the second verse stands out to me as being distinctly Lori. 

I'm just going of what she said in this interview

 

[wastedpotential]

Just now, By the Water said:

The amount of fans that think like these people is crazy. They think they're enlightened or something. Like, IBTYTAM isn't that serious of a song, that's the whole point. Getting mad over a house that's neither a mansion nor the farm she talked about 

Like there is an entirely different farm that she's referring to where she spent the first several years of her life 

 

It's not like that lyric was just randomly thrown in so she could cosplay as a poor person  

[Timeless]

4 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

Mixtape is called bad because it's her most juvenile album . The songs lack perspective and maturity and the production sounds so dated honestly. The tv will update the production I'm sure but most of us are pushing 30/40, you can't expect us to relate to some things that a 15-year-old wrote. IBYTAM is scathing and the draggings are mature and cut deep because they're sung by an adult about an adult relationship. I can appreciate the songs on debut for being well crafted considering her age and for the nostalgia factor, but you can't compare "I'll tell my daddy that you're gay" to "scared not to be hip, scared to get old". 

An album isn't bad just because you can't relate to the themes of it. Debut has many mature lyrics and is honestly better than some of her later work (namely Lover). Songs like Cold As You, Tied Together With A Smile, Mary's Song especially remain lyrical masterpieces and hold up in her discography very well. Sure it's not poetic, but it is confessional and that is her best style of writing imo. Teenage angst in bops like Picture To Burn and Should've Said No are fun songs you cannot deny. 

[Timeless]

4 minutes ago, By the Water said:

The amount of fans that think like these people is crazy. They think they're enlightened or something. Like, IBTYTAM isn't that serious of a song, that's the whole point. Getting mad over a house that's neither a mansion nor the farm she talked about 

It's still an overrated song, hope that helps 

[Timeless]

2 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

Like there is an entirely different farm that she's referring to where she spent the first several years of her life 

 

It's not like that lyric was just randomly thrown in so she could cosplay as a poor person  

But added with the "kitchen table bills" lyric  she knew what she was doing with that

[Cleanromantic]

1 minute ago, By the Water said:

The amount of fans that think like these people is crazy. They think they're enlightened or something. Like, IBTYTAM isn't that serious of a song, that's the whole point. Getting mad over a house that's neither a mansion nor the farm she talked about 

exactly, it's the "enlightenment" and "unbiasedness" these people constantly preach about having. They act like being a fan is a political movement and that they need to "hold her accountable" for stupid things so that they look cool and smart. It's music, you like it or you keep it pushing. As I said, the only thing she needs to be held accountable for is the emissions thing, but no one, not a single person, in the stan world, is holding her accountable for that for the right reasons. They just wanted something to drag her with and faking moral superiority is the way to go these days, or else every single celebrity would be dragged for how they damage the environment, whether by their jet use (like the 30+ people above her on those lists) or their makeup and fast fashion brands. 

[Klein]

25 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

Baguettologist

I honestly spilled my water. I was not prepared. 

[By the Water]

4 minutes ago, Timeless said:

It's still an overrated song, hope that helps 

It's your opinion and that's ok. You don't have to justify it by pretending you're going against some systematic oppression for not liking it. Sometimes you just don't like something that's popular and that's it.

 

I find Cruel Summer to be extremely overrated but you won't see me saying the song bothers me because she's "poking fun at the climate change she causes with her jet" or whatever

[Cleanromantic]

7 minutes ago, Timeless said:

An album isn't bad just because you can't relate to the themes of it. Debut has many mature lyrics and is honestly better than some of her later work (namely Lover). Songs like Cold As You, Tied Together With A Smile, Mary's Song especially remain lyrical masterpieces and hold up in her discography very well. Sure it's not poetic, but it is confessional and that is her best style of writing imo. Teenage angst in bops like Picture To Burn and Should've Said No are fun songs you cannot deny. 

I don't see any of those songs as mature and Lover is so much more mature than those songs you listed, it just unfortunately houses Me! and YNTCD, so let's agree to disagree 

[By the Water]

2 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

exactly, it's the "enlightenment" and "unbiasedness" these people constantly preach about having. They act like being a fan is a political movement and that they need to "hold her accountable" for stupid things so that they look cool and smart. It's music, you like it or you keep it pushing. As I said, the only thing she needs to be held accountable for is the emissions thing, but no one, not a single person, in the stan world, is holding her accountable for that for the right reasons. They just wanted something to drag her with and faking moral superiority is the way to go these days, or else every single celebrity would be dragged for how they damage the environment, whether by their jet use (like the 30+ people above her on those lists) or their makeup and fast fashion brands. 

The "holding her accountable" part is so funny because they don't actually do anything. The most they'll do is tweet about how they don't approve of something like that ridiculous "SpeakUpNow" hashtag. They'll do that so they don't feel guilty about buying every piece of merch and every album variant.

[Cleanromantic]

Just now, By the Water said:

The "holding her accountable" part is so funny because they don't actually do anything. The most they'll do is tweet about how they don't approve of something like that ridiculous "SpeakUpNow" hashtag. They'll do that so they don't feel guilty about buying every piece of merch and every album variant.

Don't remind me of the losers complaining about the variants . They'll complain about her releasing so much online while buying every single variant/ merch. I don't buy her variants or merch but you won't see me complaining about it like I'm about to save the world on twitter/ reddit. The only reason she's releasing variants is because people buy them. She's actually less guilty of this than other artists because at least hers sell while others release the same amount but theirs just end up in clearance bins.

[Timeless]

8 minutes ago, By the Water said:

It's your opinion and that's ok. You don't have to justify it by pretending you're going against some systematic oppression for not liking it. Sometimes you just don't like something that's popular and that's it.

I didn't pretend why I don't like the song. IBYTAM rubs me the wrong way and thats why I think its an overrated song because it's not a complete masterpiece everyone says it is. 

[Timeless]

12 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

I don't see any of those songs as mature and Lover is so much more mature than those songs you listed, it just unfortunately houses Me! and YNTCD, so let's agree to disagree 

Cold As You is a much more mature track 5 than The Archer about leaving a toxic relationship who the guy was extremely emotionally unavailable
Tied Together With A Smile is about one of her friends who suffered from an eating disorder 
Mary's Song is a song about her next-door neighbours' love story who was a old couple

Meanwhile Lover is a mess and many of the tracks lack any depth or just have cringy lyrics 

[Klein]

Debut vs Lover was not the war I had on my bingo card. It does have the merit to be a new thing though. 

[Cleanromantic]

Just now, Timeless said:

Cold As You is a much more mature track 5 than The Archer about leaving a toxic relationship who the guy was extremely emotionally unavailable
Tied Together With A Smile is about one of her friends who suffered from an eating disorder 
Mary's Song is a song about her next-door neighbours' love story who was a old couple

Meanwhile Lover is a mess and many of the tracks lack any depth or just have cringy lyrics 

I know what they're about, I just find them immature/surface-level. They have flowery language so people mistakingly think they're deeper than what they are. 

I find the persistent anxiety and insecurity of the Lover songs more relatable to me than her preaching about knowing life while being 16. But it's the most natural thing for a 16-year-old to think they have it all figured out only to reach their 20s and realize they know nothing.  

[Achilles.]

2 minutes ago, Klein said:

Debut vs Lover was not the war I had on my bingo card. It does have the merit to be a new thing though. 

The Achilles agenda is spreading. Next we will get the girlies to admit that none of her pop albums are in her top 5.