Cleanromantic Posted January 27 Posted January 27 13 minutes ago, Klein said: I like the Swiftologist's channel. I appreciate to consume Taylor content that is a bit critical, even if I don't agree with some of the things he says. But in the Midnights AOTY, it's filled with points I disagree with: First, he says that whatever Taylor was releasing, it would have been a massive success, and so success is insignificant in its nomination/win at the Grammy's. And to that, I say no. Sure, she was 100% going to have an AMAZING debut for the album. But I don't think the longevity would be there if the project didn't resonate with the public. We can see this with folklore and evermore, where evermore sold significantly less, or even with the re-recording of 2023. 1989 TV is so much more successful than Speak Now TV because the music is what people are gravitating around. Even with all the success Taylor is seeing since The Eras Tour, Midnights having this kind of longevity all around the world is not just indicative of Taylormania but of the quality of the record, or at least the appeal of the record for the public. He says that Midnights doesn't deserve to win next to Fearless, 1989 and folklore because these 3 introduced a significant shift in her career. And I can kinda understand this one. Midnights is not taking her into an unfamiliar place regarding her career. But what does that have to do with the quality of the work itself? Adele won for both 21 and 25 and these albums are not that different. The point that makes my blood boil is when he says there's no career highlight on Midnights. Tf?! Maroon, YOYOK and WCS are most definitely career highlights and, if you count it as part of the album (which I do), You're Losing Me too. And the worst part is that he actually insist on that multiple times in the video, ESPECIALLY when LWYMMD is cited as a career highlight "based on the music itself". The whole reason why LWYMMD is this defining hit song is because of style over substance... which is what he's dragging Midnights for. When he's talking about Anti-Hero's chart performance, it's clear he doesn't understand the charts, because there's only one week when the remixes made a difference : its 3rd week, when it would've been #2 instead of #1. Considering he's ranting about needing to know what people were really listening to to assess the impact of an album, I think there's no case that can be made that the GP wasn't tuning in for Midnights. So, argument out. He's arguing that the visuals are mid and that it plays against Midnights being deserving of AOTY, but what does that have to do with the quality of the album? He's saying the critical reception of Midnights is lukewarm, when it has 85 on metacritic. I fundamentally disagree that the previous albums should be taken into account when deciding whether or not Midnights deserves AOTY. It's not like folklore/evermore have anything in common with Midnights that we can use to actually compare them anyway. Also, he mentions that folklore is a quality jump in songwriting compared to Lover, and that the quality of the songwriting drops between folklore/evermore and Midnights. To that I say... well yes! But the quality of the songwriting also dropped between Red and 1989 and that didn't stop 1989 from winning AOTY. Finally another point I agree with: Anti-Hero is not a defining hit for her career. I don't see AH having that kind of sustained longevity over the years/decades, or even making the same kind of impact, as songs like LS/YBWM/WANEGBT/SIO/BS etc... Then he argues that Midnights has non-specific writing, which I think it's true for at least a few songs. But then he makes two other points that I disagree. First he says the vagueness of the writing is jarring compared to what we know about Taylor, and to that I say, once again, what does it have to do with the quality of the record? Just because Taylor has mostly used extremely specific songwriting during her career doesn't mean Midnights shouldn't be AOTY because she's doing something different from before. Second, he says that for most songs, the feeling/message is not clear, or that you can't associate an emotion to it. And I think it's only true for Labyrinth and Question. Everything else is pretty straightforward in terms of what she wants to convey. We just don't necessarily know who it's specifically about. Anyway, all that to say I don't agree with his points. This video reads just as an opinion, but not a well-written argument about why Midnights doesn't deserve AOTY. It's almost as if he wanted Midnights to be something or give something specific, and is disappointed it wasn't the case. Thank you for having the patience to go through his unbearable video and listen to his sanctimonious voice. I agree with everything you said. 2
wastedpotential Posted January 27 Posted January 27 (edited) 4 hours ago, Cleanromantic said: That annoying YouTuber is the definition of a pick me swifty . Midnights is actually a pretty solid contender for aoty looking at the competition. Out of the albums I listened to: Olivia's Guts is dragged down by the weak ballads. Miley's is forgettable. Lana's dragged on for too long and has no reply value. She deserved to get a nom for Norman ******* Rockwell. I won't be angry if SOS won, but the narrative that it's a stronger record than midnights is such hypocritical bs, especially lyrically. It's a great album though so I won't be mad, but I want Midnights to win just to see the oth/pick mes meltdown and lose it. And these things work in voting blocs, and as upsetting as it probably will be to these pick-me's, unless the country voters are going to randomly pull hard for the ******* boygenius album (which doesn't seem particularly likely), AOTY is Midnights' to lose. The pop/"I vote for what I hear on the radio in the car with my kids" voter is going to be split between Taylor, Olivia, Miley, and probably to some extent SZA, the rap/RnB/urban vote is going to be split between SZA, Janelle Monae, and Jon Batiste with the latter two also splitting the classical/jazz voters, the indie/folk/rock voters are stuck between Taylor, Lana, and Boygenius, plus maybe 15% to Jon Batiste/Janelle Monae (and while these are mostly pretentious rock men voters, they've shown willingness to award Taylor before for her literal folk output) and the country voters (probably 1/4 of all Grammy voters) are going to vote at a high rate for the only nominee with strong connections to their ecosystem. Country music voting is highly network driven, and Taylor knows more Grammy voters in Nashville than every other nominee put together and doubled. Taylor is basically set for 2/3 or more of the country vote, 1/3 of the pop vote, at least 1/3 of the indie/folk/rock vote, and all of the "well I don't know who to vote for so I'm picking the popular choice" voters, which is not a majority but is a strong, strong plurality over everyone else. Unless the show manager intervenes at the last second, AOTY is 1000000% Taylor's to lose, with a distant second place finish to either SZA, Janelle Monae, or Jon Batiste depending on how the ******* jazz/classical voters shake out Edited January 27 by wastedpotential 2
Klein Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Anyway with all this talk about Midnights, I'm playing the album again for the first time in a while in its original order. I have only been listening to my own re-arranged tracklist lately and when I hit play and got smacked by Lavender Haze instead of Dear Reader, I wasn't ready. One thing I love about this album is that the some of the most upsetting topics are disguised into absolute bops. I think the theme approached in Bejeweled is one of the most true to the description of the album (especially after reading the POTY interview), and yet it is disguised as this mindless pop song. I just love it. I think I don't see enough praise for Bejeweled. A bop and a half, and I love the video. It should've been the 3rd single instead of Lavender Haze, but let's not start rewriting history. 1
Cleanromantic Posted January 27 Posted January 27 30 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: And these things work in voting blocs, and as upsetting as it probably will be to these pick-me's, unless the country voters are going to randomly pull hard for the ******* boygenius album (which doesn't seem particularly likely), AOTY is Midnights' to lose. The pop/"I vote for what I hear on the radio in the car with my kids" voter is going to be split between Taylor, Olivia, Miley, and probably to some extent SZA, the rap/RnB/urban vote is going to be split between SZA, Janelle Monae, and Jon Batiste with the latter two also splitting the classical/jazz voters, the indie/folk/rock voters are stuck between Taylor, Lana, and Boygenius, plus maybe 15% to Jon Batiste/Janelle Monae (and while these are mostly pretentious rock men voters, they've shown willingness to award Taylor before for her literal folk output) and the country voters (probably 1/4 of all Grammy voters) are going to vote at a high rate for the only nominee with strong connections to their ecosystem. Country music voting is highly network driven, and Taylor knows more Grammy voters in Nashville than every other nominee put together and doubled. Taylor is basically set for 2/3 or more of the country vote, 1/3 of the pop vote, at least 1/3 of the indie/folk/rock vote, and all of the "well I don't know who to vote for so I'm picking the popular choice" voters, which is not a majority but is a strong, strong plurality over everyone else. Unless the show manager intervenes at the last second, AOTY is 1000000% Taylor's to lose, with a distant second place finish to either SZA, Janelle Monae, or Jon Batiste depending on how the ******* jazz/classical voters shake out And I'm going to enjoy every tear shed by the oth and pick mes if this happens. Love how each year we hear about how irrelevant the Grammys are and then everyone starts having meltdowns when Taylor enters the conversation. 1
Klein Posted January 27 Posted January 27 4 minutes ago, Kyle-x said: Blessing the base with a top 20 song from her discography. I wish you the best of day. 1
Klein Posted January 27 Posted January 27 It's crazy how 'Ready For It?' is one of the biggest slay when played live like... it's building so much hype and energy, and yet I never play the studio version. 1
fridayteenage Posted January 27 Posted January 27 what if when he's holding a trophy or a champion ring, he kneels to the ground and pulls out a ring and says...
idkwiam Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Maroon (5) is DEFINITELY not a highlight of her discography. That melodicless "song" doesn't deserve to be in the same conversation as Our Song, You Belong With Me, Enchanted, All Too Well, Style, Don't Blame, the entirety of folkmore etc. It has some forgettable lyrics and the streams speak for themselves. It's currently getting outstreamed by a "dated" song like "I did something bad". 2 2
Lille Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Can y'all listen to "Ronan"? My eyes start tearing up at the first guitar lick and I have to skip it every single time.
idkwiam Posted January 27 Posted January 27 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Lille said: Can y'all listen to "Ronan"? My eyes start tearing up at the first guitar lick and I have to skip it every single time. I have listened to it 4 times only (OG and TV). It's too emotional for me to listen to. Now that's what I would call a discography highlight. Spoiler Such a shame that Ronan's mother turned out to be a Zionist and fully supports Israel... Edited January 27 by idkwiam 1
Goaty Posted January 27 Posted January 27 28 minutes ago, Lille said: Can y'all listen to "Ronan"? My eyes start tearing up at the first guitar lick and I have to skip it every single time. No. I love sad songs, but it's not even the "fun" kind of sad to listen to. It's just sad. I skip it every time.
Tusk Posted January 27 Posted January 27 7 hours ago, Klein said: I like the Swiftologist's channel. I appreciate to consume Taylor content that is a bit critical, even if I don't agree with some of the things he says. But in the Midnights AOTY, it's filled with points I disagree with: First, he says that whatever Taylor was releasing, it would have been a massive success, and so success is insignificant in its nomination/win at the Grammy's. And to that, I say no. Sure, she was 100% going to have an AMAZING debut for the album. But I don't think the longevity would be there if the project didn't resonate with the public. We can see this with folklore and evermore, where evermore sold significantly less, or even with the re-recording of 2023. 1989 TV is so much more successful than Speak Now TV because the music is what people are gravitating around. Even with all the success Taylor is seeing since The Eras Tour, Midnights having this kind of longevity all around the world is not just indicative of Taylormania but of the quality of the record, or at least the appeal of the record for the public. He says that Midnights doesn't deserve to win next to Fearless, 1989 and folklore because these 3 introduced a significant shift in her career. And I can kinda understand this one. Midnights is not taking her into an unfamiliar place regarding her career. But what does that have to do with the quality of the work itself? Adele won for both 21 and 25 and these albums are not that different. The point that makes my blood boil is when he says there's no career highlight on Midnights. Tf?! Maroon, YOYOK and WCS are most definitely career highlights and, if you count it as part of the album (which I do), You're Losing Me too. And the worst part is that he actually insist on that multiple times in the video, ESPECIALLY when LWYMMD is cited as a career highlight "based on the music itself". The whole reason why LWYMMD is this defining hit song is because of style over substance... which is what he's dragging Midnights for. When he's talking about Anti-Hero's chart performance, it's clear he doesn't understand the charts, because there's only one week when the remixes made a difference : its 3rd week, when it would've been #2 instead of #1. Considering he's ranting about needing to know what people were really listening to to assess the impact of an album, I think there's no case that can be made that the GP wasn't tuning in for Midnights. So, argument out. He's arguing that the visuals are mid and that it plays against Midnights being deserving of AOTY, but what does that have to do with the quality of the album? He's saying the critical reception of Midnights is lukewarm, when it has 85 on metacritic. I fundamentally disagree that the previous albums should be taken into account when deciding whether or not Midnights deserves AOTY. It's not like folklore/evermore have anything in common with Midnights that we can use to actually compare them anyway. Also, he mentions that folklore is a quality jump in songwriting compared to Lover, and that the quality of the songwriting drops between folklore/evermore and Midnights. To that I say... well yes! But the quality of the songwriting also dropped between Red and 1989 and that didn't stop 1989 from winning AOTY. Finally another point I agree with: Anti-Hero is not a defining hit for her career. I don't see AH having that kind of sustained longevity over the years/decades, or even making the same kind of impact, as songs like LS/YBWM/WANEGBT/SIO/BS etc... Then he argues that Midnights has non-specific writing, which I think it's true for at least a few songs. But then he makes two other points that I disagree. First he says the vagueness of the writing is jarring compared to what we know about Taylor, and to that I say, once again, what does it have to do with the quality of the record? Just because Taylor has mostly used extremely specific songwriting during her career doesn't mean Midnights shouldn't be AOTY because she's doing something different from before. Second, he says that for most songs, the feeling/message is not clear, or that you can't associate an emotion to it. And I think it's only true for Labyrinth and Question. Everything else is pretty straightforward in terms of what she wants to convey. We just don't necessarily know who it's specifically about. Anyway, all that to say I don't agree with his points. This video reads just as an opinion, but not a well-written argument about why Midnights doesn't deserve AOTY. It's almost as if he wanted Midnights to be something or give something specific, and is disappointed it wasn't the case. But what are the Easter eggs saying about her wins? She is wearing 4 necklaces meaning midnights is winning her 4th AOTY.
4Real Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Midnights winning AOTY would be a terrible look for everyone involved especially the Grammys, but they did award Harry's House last year so it wouldn't be surprising 1
4Real Posted January 27 Posted January 27 10 hours ago, TaylenaStan said: Yes because thinking that Mid doesnt deserve AOTY means im a hater now and Taylor isnt my fav artist of all time.. you know you can be a fan and not stan every single album/song they put out The sheep mentality is alarming, it's giving delusional stan twitter
Headlock Posted January 27 Posted January 27 10 hours ago, Love Again said: I relistened to Debut today and why did no one tell me this album is actually good? TS11 Country album I kinda support it I fear Debut TV is gonna annihilate careers, the only thing holding back that album is her puberty vocals, but the songwriting is top tier, smart, and personal. Our Song remains one of her best songs 2
Headlock Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Also why are we debating AOTY when the only award we know Taylor cares about is SOTY, which she 100% deserves to win 3
Solaria Posted January 27 Posted January 27 4 hours ago, Klein said: It's crazy how 'Ready For It?' is one of the biggest slay when played live like... it's building so much hype and energy, and yet I never play the studio version. That’s on YOU! On the other hand me? Oh I was turning UP 1
N.M.K. Posted January 27 Posted January 27 1 hour ago, idkwiam said: I have listened to it 4 times only (OG and TV). It's too emotional for me to listen to. Now that's what I would call a discography highlight. Reveal hidden contents Such a shame that Ronan's mother turned out to be a Zionist and fully supports Israel... Lmao. Wait till you hear about Jack Antonoff!
ATRL Moderator wehavetostan Posted January 27 ATRL Moderator Posted January 27 I wonder what Taylor thinks of Nicki’s meltdown and if she support Megan. It’s been disappointing that she’s been supporting Nicki for years, especially given that Taylor has been a big advocate for victims of SA. 2
kexin Posted January 27 Posted January 27 2 hours ago, idkwiam said: Maroon (5) is DEFINITELY not a highlight of her discography. That melodicless "song" doesn't deserve to be in the same conversation as Our Song, You Belong With Me, Enchanted, All Too Well, Style, Don't Blame, the entirety of folkmore etc. It has some forgettable lyrics and the streams speak for themselves. It's currently getting outstreamed by a "dated" song like "I did something bad". Maroon was the type of sound that I wanted from her, which is hard to explain but I guess that is why I really liked it a lot.
State of Grace. Posted January 27 Posted January 27 A this point Swiftologist only keeps using swifties for clicks and views and they keep giving him that. The only point that I agree with, and I've posted about it here months ago, is how her 3 AOTY wins so far have been pivotal albums and represented 3 major milestones and transitions in her career, which makes Midnights stick out like a sore thumb. Fearless: commercial breakthrough, one of the biggest country albums ever 1989: major genre shift to Pop, her biggest album ever folklore: another genre shift to an alt/singer-songwriter sound following a stagnant period in her career, her magnum opus to critics and most fans, responsible for her current domination and imperial phase Mid: nights She's long overdue for a SOTY/ROTY win. A 4th AOTY, especially this soon, is overkill and would just cheapen them. I'd rather she gets it with yet another magnum opus in the future. She doesn't need it every time she drops one. 4 1
By the Water Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Midnights is thee album that represents her imperial phase lmao 2
Redstreak Posted January 28 Posted January 28 I still don’t think I really understand the “she can do better than midnights” talk because compared to what? It’s easily in the top half of her discography (personally I put it higher) so like I can’t see why fearless should win and this shouldn’t
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