fan base Taylor Swift

[By the Water]

57 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said:

I call that out for being ludicrous too. I can’t control how other people react but I can call both sides annoying. A spades a spade. 

Except the difference is that dancers in a formation, vogueing and marching bands existed before. In this case we're talking about something Taylor did pioneer. That's why when the movie was first announced there were articles talking about how some studios were upset about that deal. I don't blame anyone that wants to copy it because it was a smart move but the fact that you think giving Taylor her dues is something negative just because other fanbases may not like it or won't want to admit it is sad

[Holiest Dreams]

1 minute ago, fridayteenage said:

Cruel Summer audio video aiming to pass Willow.

 

 

It’ll be funny if it surpasses Anti-Hero MV, but then again it’s her own fault since the skit ruined any replay value for those who just want to hear the song from start to finish 

[Peroxide]

16 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said:

It’s more so just the lack of self awareness from people who complain about a behavior and then… retaliate with the exact same behavior. If you genuinely have an issue with the way someone handles a situation, how does handling it the exact same way do anything to resolve the core issue? It’s just creating a never ending cycle. But you’re right that’s too high of an expectation I guess 

Yeah you hit the nail on the head…

 

At the end of the day, what is the point? Taylor and Beyoncé will be making coin either way.

 

There’s dirty antics on both sides - but we should at least be able to look in the mirror and call it out within our own base.
 

I literally never go on Twitter because the back and forth becomes so vicious and delusional.

[PoisonedIvy]

6 minutes ago, By the Water said:

Except the difference is that dancers in a formation, vogueing and marching bands existed before. In this case we're talking about something Taylor did pioneer. That's why when the movie was first announced there were articles talking about how some studios were upset about that deal. I don't blame anyone that wants to copy it because it was a smart move but the fact that you think giving Taylor her dues is something negative just because other fanbases may not like it or won't want to admit it is sad

I understand where you’re coming from. Those instances from the Hive were petty, childish, immature, and frankly just false accusations. Whereas this actually has some merit. I still hold to my virtue but I get the other perspective, I do. I didn’t expect to solve an age-old issue with my opinion. I know people just like to argue/fight/compete/debate. It’s human nature since the dawn of time.  I’m just an idealogical pacifist which I know is basically an unattainable world lol

[Enrique523]

1 hour ago, Holiest Dreams said:

Being nice doesn’t get you anywhere when it comes to online stan culture. Swifties were perhaps the only fanbase keeping it cute last summer when a certain era kickstarted, and we see where that got us. Swifties get blamed for literally everything, even when it’s a flat out lie (and it usually is), so I just don’t see the point in trying to be nice anymore 

 

It’s not that serious, definitely, but that also applies to the on-going arguments between fanbases. Being messy and stirring the pot is just the very essence of stan culture.

I mean, people are seriously trying to say Swifties are the worst fanbase when all we do is defend Taylor against vicious lies. I've seen it everywhere all over Twitter, how we supposedly are the most vicious fanbase that ever existed and we "bully" other fanbases and their faves. Which couldn't be further from the truth, we are STILL one of the nicest fanbases out there despite all of this. As you said, being nice doesn't bring us anywhere at this point.

[Enrique523]

1 hour ago, Holiest Dreams said:

It’ll be funny if it surpasses Anti-Hero MV, but then again it’s her own fault since the skit ruined any replay value for those who just want to hear the song from start to finish 

Yeah, when i saw the video for the first time i immediately knew the views wouldn't be great because of that skit. It was a terrible idea to include it in the middle of the song, the GP doesn't care about that stuff, they just want to hear the song with visuals. I have no idea what went to her mind when she decided to include it.

[Holiest Dreams]

1 minute ago, Enrique523 said:

I mean, people are seriously trying to say Swifties are the worst fanbase when all we do is defend Taylor against vicious lies. I've seen it everywhere all over Twitter, how we supposedly are the most vicious fanbase that ever existed and we "bully" other fanbases and their faves. Which couldn't be further from the truth, we are STILL one of the nicest fanbases out there despite all of this. As you said, being nice doesn't bring us anywhere at this point.

All of this talk reminds me of when Swifties got blamed for “harassing and relentlessly bullying” that actress from Ginny & Georgia. Meanwhile the reality of the situation was that some losers sent her hate comments and then once Swifties as a whole caught wind, they flooded her comments with 50x the amount of positive comments than whatever hate she initially got from some trolls  

 

People can’t do anything about her dominance and how strong her fanbase is, so the closest option is to theorize about her incoming downfall due to her “rabid fanbase,” or whatever. As if Swifties move any differently or worse than the other big fanbases  

[Holiest Dreams]

2 minutes ago, Enrique523 said:

Yeah, when i saw the video for the first time i immediately knew the views wouldn't be great because of that skit. It was a terrible idea to include it in the middle of the song, the GP doesn't care about that stuff, they just want to hear the song with visuals. I have no idea what went to her mind when she decided to include it.

She should’ve released an edited version without the skit, like every other artist does when they release MVs with long breaks  

 

I guess she wanted to really push the director thing though, which I understand and support her in, so oh well. 

[wastedpotential]

35 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said:

It’s more so just the lack of self awareness from people who complain about a behavior and then… retaliate with the exact same behavior. If you genuinely have an issue with the way someone handles a situation, how does handling it the exact same way do anything to resolve the core issue? It’s just creating a never ending cycle. But you’re right that’s too high of an expectation I guess 

Hypocrisy is kinda just par for the course in fan communities. If we don't participate, other people will, and they'll get control of the dominant narratives first, and that's a significant net loss for us. The benefits of keeping our hands clean and in the mods good graces isn't worth the **** we get from other fanbases. There are literally dozens of fanbases who use numbers to lord over the fans of girls who are less successful than their fave, but the minute they start fighting with Swifties it's 'not everything is about numbers!' or 'fanbase driven without any cultural impact!' or 'local!' or any number of excuses. It's all fine and well to try and be the better person, and god knows every other fanbase can appreciate a Swiftie who tries to stay above the brawling (since it saves them the hassle of trying to pretend objective statistics aren't good metrics of comparison), but there comes a point where there's no point being the bigger person. The never-ending cycles of fighting this way are perpetuated by literally every other fanbase, and the only thing we get from by not participating is opening ourselves up to issues further down the line. Swifties (for the most part) had been pretty amicable toward Beyonce in the post-folklore world (because there was zero competition), but the minute the tours were going head to head and it became a direct comparison, attitudes got really nasty. Plus, for what it's worth, Swifties have never played as dirty as the Hive (see Mayochella or Formation), especially in 2018 when Taylor and Bey were also touring head to head and Taylor's figures curbstomped Beyonce's. At this point, the negativity and animosity is all about equalizing the playing field. I'm sorry you're stuck in the middle as a fan of both, but this is literally a pop music forum primarily inhabited by elder millennial gay men who fight on behalf of pop girls that haven't seen musical relevance in over a decade, so there's really no room for maturity. 

[Enrique523]

1 hour ago, PoisonedIvy said:

I understand where you’re coming from. Those instances from the Hive were petty, childish, immature, and frankly just false accusations. Whereas this actually has some merit. I still hold to my virtue but I get the other perspective, I do. I didn’t expect to solve an age-old issue with my opinion. I know people just like to argue/fight/compete/debate. It’s human nature since the dawn of time.  I’m just an idealogical pacifist which I know is basically an unattainable world lol

You know, despite the difference in our approachs, i have to say i really respect you and the way you see things, you are one of the most positive and intelligent Swifties on ATRL and i think i speak for most of us when i say your presence here is invaluable. It's always refreshing to see you trying to get above BS. It's just that unfortunately it doesn't resolve most issues when it comes to the way Taylor is seen and talked about. But it's still good to see you fight for your ideals and we need more people like you in the world in general 

[wastedpotential]

When it comes to our attitudes toward other fanbases (not just the Hive), it seems that whenever we try to go high and play the game safely, they go low and we get negatively impacted (see the local, untalented, or impactless claims that are pretty widely accepted here despite being less true for Taylor than for a lot of other girls). There's literally no reason for us to go high aside from achieving some sort of moral superiority that they don't recognize or care about (or pretend to have, in the case of some users). It's in our best interests to meet them at their level and to match their negativity, because then we will pretty much always win.

[fridayteenage]

21 minutes ago, Holiest Dreams said:

It’ll be funny if it surpasses Anti-Hero MV, but then again it’s her own fault since the skit ruined any replay value for those who just want to hear the song from start to finish 

yeah, it's easy to skip past the beginning in i knew you were trouble + bejeweled + me

[Goaty]

It's also perfectly acceptable and reasonable to choose to not participate when things get messy. I love a dramatic thread with 100+ actively viewing members and lots of warning points being thrown around, but ultimately I will never convince someone else of my viewpoint when they choose to engage with it in bad faith, which is exactly what most stans do when things are heated. So I can either go low with them for some laughs and amusement, or I can disengage completely. And the older I get the more I choose the latter. 

 

It's great to discuss pop culture with intelligent, reasonable members, especially when we disagree -- it's just a matter of identifying those posters and ignoring the rest. 

[PoisonedIvy]

10 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

 I'm sorry you're stuck in the middle as a fan of both, 

I appreciate your input, you make a lot of valid points and I understand that perspective. 
 

But I am actually not much of a fan of Beyonce  

 

I enjoy Mariah, Celine, Janet, Britney, Gaga, Rihanna, Ariana, Miley.. so many more before Bey  I respect her as a performer and an artist immensely I just don’t really connect with her music very much. But she’s culturally the only one who is even in the vicinity of Taylor right now and I wish the fanbases could get along a little better on both ends, but that’s just not the way the world works lol

[PoisonedIvy]

11 minutes ago, Enrique523 said:

You know, despite the difference in our approachs, i have to say i really respect you and the way you see things, you are one of the most positive and intelligent Swifties on ATRL and i think i speak for most of us when i say your presence here is invaluable. It's always refreshing to see you trying to get above BS. It's just that unfortunately it doesn't resolve most issues when it comes to the way Taylor is seen and talked about. But it's still good to see you fight for your ideals and we need more people like you in the world in general 

 Thank you for the kind words. They’re very sweet and it means a lot to hear such a thoughtful sentiment.  

 

And don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to get everyone to approach things with my perspective. The conflicts are fun and they exist across all forms of entertainment — music, sports, theater, etc — and I don’t expect them to end just because I’m personally a pacifist. I can spectate and enjoy, and at times even participate. In fact it’s fun when I do because I’m very articulate and well-researched so they’re usually left with egg on their face. I take it easy on the girls most of the time.   

[NEUTRON]

It's annoying watching the two fanbases clash when the artists themselves respect each other. 

 

I love em both and keep my ass in Switzerland. 

[Enrique523]

1 hour ago, wastedpotential said:

Hypocrisy is kinda just par for the course in fan communities. If we don't participate, other people will, and they'll get control of the dominant narratives first, and that's a significant net loss for us. The benefits of keeping our hands clean and in the mods good graces isn't worth the **** we get from other fanbases. There are literally dozens of fanbases who use numbers to lord over the fans of girls who are less successful than their fave, but the minute they start fighting with Swifties it's 'not everything is about numbers!' or 'fanbase driven without any cultural impact!' or 'local!' or any number of excuses. It's all fine and well to try and be the better person, and god knows every other fanbase can appreciate a Swiftie who tries to stay above the brawling (since it saves them the hassle of trying to pretend objective statistics aren't good metrics of comparison), but there comes a point where there's no point being the bigger person. The never-ending cycles of fighting this way are perpetuated by literally every other fanbase, and the only thing we get from by not participating is opening ourselves up to issues further down the line. Swifties (for the most part) had been pretty amicable toward Beyonce in the post-folklore world (because there was zero competition), but the minute the tours were going head to head and it became a direct comparison, attitudes got really nasty. Plus, for what it's worth, Swifties have never played as dirty as the Hive (see Mayochella or Formation), especially in 2018 when Taylor and Bey were also touring head to head and Taylor's figures curbstomped Beyonce's. At this point, the negativity and animosity is all about equalizing the playing field. I'm sorry you're stuck in the middle as a fan of both, but this is literally a pop music forum primarily inhabited by elder millennial gay men who fight on behalf of pop girls that haven't seen musical relevance in over a decade, so there's really no room for maturity. 

 

1 hour ago, wastedpotential said:

When it comes to our attitudes toward other fanbases (not just the Hive), it seems that whenever we try to go high and play the game safely, they go low and we get negatively impacted (see the local, untalented, or impactless claims that are pretty widely accepted here despite being less true for Taylor than for a lot of other girls). There's literally no reason for us to go high aside from achieving some sort of moral superiority that they don't recognize or care about (or pretend to have, in the case of some users). It's in our best interests to meet them at their level and to match their negativity, because then we will pretty much always win.

I swear, your posts are always a joy to read, you explain things so much better than i ever could. I agree with everything you said 

 

[wastedpotential]

Just now, PoisonedIvy said:

I appreciate your input, you make a lot of valid points and I understand that perspective. 
 

But I am actually not much of a fan of Beyonce  

 

I enjoy Mariah, Celine, Janet, Britney, Gaga, Rihanna, Ariana, Miley.. so many more before Bey  I respect her as a performer and an artist immensely I just don’t really connect with her music very much. But she’s culturally the only one who is even in the vicinity of Taylor right now and I wish the fanbases could get along a little better on both ends, but that’s just not the way the world works lol

nnnn wait 

 

I think that you've got a very admirable perspective on the drama and the petty fighting that goes on here, and this website would be a lot less toxic if everyone approached fanbase disputes like you. I definitely think it would be in everyone's best interest if we could all get over our petty disagreements and move on, but I don't think that's particularly realistic. Resentments run really deep here (just look at the Cardi vs. Nicki or Taylor vs. Rihanna spats flaring up at the first possible opportunity or the continued endurance of Katy vs. Gaga and Britney vs. Christina), and I have a strong suspicion that the minute we try to be the better individuals and make an effort to get along better, several users on this website will leap at the opportunity to call Taylor a local, talentless, fanbase-driven fraud whose numbers come from streaming farms and tour gross manipulations like they used to get away with for so many years 

 

I think Swifties had actually made a pretty good effort at getting over the historic disputes with the BeyHive after the folklore era, but the minute a conflict point rose up (the tours), users on both sides jumped on it and the fighting started

[Enrique523]

1 hour ago, PoisonedIvy said:

 Thank you for the kind words. They’re very sweet and it means a lot to hear such a thoughtful sentiment.  

 

And don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to get everyone to approach things with my perspective. The conflicts are fun and they exist across all forms of entertainment — music, sports, theater, etc — and I don’t expect them to end just because I’m personally a pacifist. I can spectate and enjoy, and at times even participate. In fact it’s fun when I do because I’m very articulate and well-researched so they’re usually left with egg on their face. I take it easy on the girls most of the time.   

You're welcome 

 

Keep being who you are, it's a good thing to have some people like you willing to take a more calm approach to things. Let the messy stuff to people like me and the other girls 

[réveuse]

I love the positivity between each other in the swiftie community. The posts in this thread appreciating each other gives me butterflies .

[PoisonedIvy]

5 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

nnnn wait 

 

I think that you've got a very admirable perspective on the drama and the petty fighting that goes on here, and this website would be a lot less toxic if everyone approached fanbase disputes like you. I definitely think it would be in everyone's best interest if we could all get over our petty disagreements and move on, but I don't think that's particularly realistic. Resentments run really deep here (just look at the Cardi vs. Nicki or Taylor vs. Rihanna spats flaring up at the first possible opportunity or the continued endurance of Katy vs. Gaga and Britney vs. Christina), and I have a strong suspicion that the minute we try to be the better individuals and make an effort to get along better, several users on this website will leap at the opportunity to call Taylor a local, talentless, fanbase-driven fraud whose numbers come from streaming farms and tour gross manipulations like they used to get away with for so many years 

 

I think Swifties had actually made a pretty good effort at getting over the historic disputes with the BeyHive after the folklore era, but the minute a conflict point rose up (the tours), users on both sides jumped on it and the fighting started

You’re right about the feuds running deep. The Christina and Britney thing for example is prehistoric and I could flare it up with a single thread right now  

 

I’ve accepted it, and I know Twitter is basically the garbage bin of stan world. It’s not like it’s unbearable here on ATRL, and it’s nice to have the upper hand in these “impact!” & “local” conversations after years of sort of having the short end of the stick. So now that I’ve aired out of my grievances everyone can get back to their regularly scheduled programming and I’ll enjoy from the sidelines  

Edited September 30, 2023 by PoisonedIvy

[Enrique523]

1 hour ago, réveuse said:

I love the positivity between each other in the swiftie community. The posts in this thread appreciating each other gives me butterflies .

Exactly. As cheesy as it sounds we have to be there for each other, our community is amazing and i'm so glad to be a part of it 

[State of Grace.]

The stan community will never know peace. I'm just glad I'm out of the stan Twitter cesspool and only enjoy some lil trolling moments here and there on this site. But anyways you girls better be ready for Taytober. It's arguably gonna be one of the biggest months of her entire career (how many times did we say this already )

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by State of Grace.

[Enrique523]

When it comes to things used against Taylor, the one that gets me the most is the "talentless" accusation , ESPECIALLY coming from Britney or Rihanna stans. The NERVE of those people is just hard to believe sometimes 

 

It's truly hilarious how songwriting and playing instruments are somehow not considered talents in here yet Britney's dancing from 2 decades ago is the pinnacle of talent apparently. As for Rihanna... no comment 

[Enrique523]

1 hour ago, State of Grace. said:

The stan community will never know peace. I'm just glad I'm out of the stan Twitter cesspool and only enjoy some lil trolling moments here and there on this site. But anyways you girls better be ready for Taytober. It's arguably gonna be one of the biggest months of her entire career (how many times did we say this already )

 

I'm both incredibly excited AND nervous at the same time. It's truly gonna be a legendary month, it will leave its mark on ATRL for a long time to come