fan base Beyoncé

[swissman]

44 minutes ago, Crayzik said:

Did ya'll know she wanted to release another album around December 2003? The 1st single was supposed to be Scent of You but nothing happened. The way we wouldn't have the iconic music video of Naughty Girl

 

 

That's actually an insane idea for her to talk about freely lol. Releasing your sophomore album ~6 months after your debut album is released...and talking about it before your debut album is even released is an unprecedented thing. I'm sure it had more to do with a Mathew Knowles goal-of-commerce (continuing the hits, and like the other poster said Naughty Girl extended the era) rather than art, but it's interesting to see her talking about this confidently, already unafraid of the box of the traditional pop release structure.

 

 

I'm glad it never happened though. Usually scrapped, unused or deleted media are not used for a good reason.

 

 

Edited April 11 by swissman

[swissman]

4 hours ago, BnPac said:

More than that, this new act as a whole do not function as an album for me. Very strong individual songs but that appear like different scenes and plays merge into one. I haven't able to play it as a whole since the first two days, I think a visual could really help structure that. 

I felt similarly on first listen... after coming off what? three narrative records in a row it felt jarring to not have a structure from song to song, and the "here's one song ok here's another that's kinda different" shocked me, but I do think the radio/media-based interludes really help situate the album structure as giving you the feeling of listening to tv/radio at 1AM, just in the background and hearing song after great song.

 

I liked what I read on Twitter, that the first third of the record is Beyoncé doing more traditional country/folk songs, then the second third its more modern versions and the last third is where she completely does it her way, where the "this a Beyoncé album" is proven. And that to me also adds context to the overall structure.

[Kristie Kuwa]

I wonder how Parkwood feels about every song literally dropping insanely (aside from THE) like that. Do they think its fine? Do they not care? 

I would really love to have an inside on their Observation towards that

 

Do they feel "we had a great opening week, nothing else matters" or are they worried like us stans?

Edited April 11 by Kristie Kuwa

[swissman]

7 hours ago, Space&Time said:

I have to wonder, assuming Beyoncé is releasing visuals when the ACTs are done. Will it be worth it?  Sacrificing the joy that comes with the visual representation of music has been tough. Will it have been justified? 
 

We've debated about whether it will be a video per song, or a collage of moments equaling a couple hours. 
 

Maybe it will be somewhat like black is king after the gift, coming in 2026, but with some songs omitted or abbreviated to fit in a 2 hour music visual movie (this will surely piss folks off and no one will be pleased if their favorite songs are cut or shortened).  

 

Regardless, will that have real lasting impact, compared to giving life to the music at it's cultural height?

Of course it'll be worth it! (imo lol)

 

If the Put It In A Love Song music video dropped tomorrow, would we not watch it? Would we not press play in utter happiness and disbelief that this thing we thought we'd receive is finally available for us to experience for the first time? It may not have the same impact as if we saw it in 2010, but would it also have a personal impact all its own, something different, a unique kind of pop experience?

But obviously this project is not a scrapped video for a featured song that only fans care about. It's a highly anticipated visual for two #1 albums and I think what we're underestimating is the actual power of the music she's released this era, how strong the music is just by itself and how she's developed such a cult following for her albums unlike any since 4. And like most cult-works, 4's cult following seems as much in defiance of its underperformance as the music. With RENAISSANCE and COWBOY CARTER, she's reached new audiences because of the music alone, created widely acclaimed single-play masterpieces and had everyone asking "where's the visuals?" It surely won't be the same effect as releasing right away, but neither albums are like Lemonade where a sense of urgency with the visuals/message was crucial to its impact. When/if the visuals do arrive, it'll give millions of people a sort of earned adrelaline that comes from unlocking "secret" new content for works you absolutely adore.

 

I think there is something to be said for prolonging pleasure, too. And it's something that really has not been explored in pop at all, where everything is so immediate. So it's interesting that she (seemingly) is doing that here. Beyoncé has been adamant on challenging, questioning and then ideating on the limits of traditional releases. We've seen it countless times now in various ways, I say let her cook lol.

 

As for lasting impact, it really depends, I think, on how it's rolled out. My ideal would be like three episodes released a week apart on a streaming service, so each album gets their full glory and space for discourse/consumption.

And I can see a way for the visuals to still have lasting cultural impact despite not being new content because as we've seen, old content doesn't' necessarily mean outdated or old impact. Runnin' Up That Hill was one of the biggest songs a few summers ago. Bloody Mary became one of Gaga's biggest selling singles. I think people are willing and eager to celebrate things that either didn't get their shine, or are due for being celebrated again if they're good.

 

And then there is the near certainty that putting visuals out later will boost the album in ways that not much else can. We saw the way The Gift (ostensibly a flop) returned to the Top Ten after Black is King. Now imagine what it would have done if it had contained multiple #1s, her longest running Billboard Hot 100 hit, several cult favourites (HEATED, ALIEN SUPERSTAR, etc.) and had been something fans had been asking, pleading, begging for for years.

 

 

[and in case anyone is wondering, I do not apologize for having written an "essay"]

[Kristie Kuwa]

10 minutes ago, swissman said:

Of course it'll be worth it! (imo lol)

 

If the Put It In A Love Song music video dropped tomorrow, would we not watch it? Would we not press play in utter happiness and disbelief that this thing we thought we'd receive is finally available for us to experience for the first time? It may not have the same impact as if we saw it in 2010, but would it also have a personal impact all its own, something different, a unique kind of pop experience?

But obviously this project is not a scrapped video for a featured song that only fans care about. It's a highly anticipated visual for two #1 albums and I think what we're underestimating is the actual power of the music she's released this era, how strong the music is just by itself and how she's developed such a cult following for her albums unlike any since 4. And like most cult-works, 4's cult following seems as much in defiance of its underperformance as the music. With RENAISSANCE and COWBOY CARTER, she's reached new audiences because of the music alone, created widely acclaimed single-play masterpieces and had everyone asking "where's the visuals?" It surely won't be the same effect as releasing right away, but neither albums are like Lemonade where a sense of urgency with the visuals/message was crucial to its impact. When/if the visuals do arrive, it'll give millions of people a sort of earned adrelaline that comes from unlocking "secret" new content for works you absolutely adore.

 

I think there is something to be said for prolonging pleasure, too. And it's something that really has not been explored in pop at all, where everything is so immediate. So it's interesting that she (seemingly) is doing that here. Beyoncé has been adamant on challenging, questioning and then ideating on the limits of traditional releases. We've seen it countless times now in various ways, I say let her cook lol.

 

As for lasting impact, it really depends, I think, on how it's rolled out. My ideal would be like three episodes released a week apart on a streaming service, so each album gets their full glory and space for discourse/consumption.

And I can see a way for the visuals to still have lasting cultural impact despite not being new content because as we've seen, old content doesn't' necessarily mean outdated or old impact. Runnin' Up That Hill was one of the biggest songs a few summers ago. Bloody Mary became one of Gaga's biggest selling singles. I think people are willing and eager to celebrate things that either didn't get their shine, or are due for being celebrated again if they're good.

 

And then there is the near certainty that putting visuals out later will boost the album in ways that not much else can. We saw the way The Gift (ostensibly a flop) returned to the Top Ten after Black is King. Now imagine what it would have done if it had contained multiple #1s, her longest running Billboard Hot 100 hit, several cult favourites (HEATED, ALIEN SUPERSTAR, etc.) and had been something fans had been asking, pleading, begging for for years.

 

 

[and in case anyone is wondering, I do not apologize for having written an "essay"]

Easy to answer: Grown Woman DEAD on Spotify because it was released too late and barely anyone listens to it.

Lemonade DEAD on streaming because it was released too late and thus many FANS even admit not listening to it that much. Its naive to believe excitement and investment of fans and the GP can be sustained if one just puts things on a halt and releases things years and years later.

It just doesnt work like that

 

Imho ur way too idealistic: TG is a lost cause, BIK made noise for 2 weeks and died afterwards. Lets not act like its consumed these days or remembered as sth grand in Beys career.

Her behavior DOES impact our pleasure

 

And mind you: You don't "prolong" an era when doing NOTHING for months and just randomly drop sth 1.5 years later. You prolong it by ACTIVELY DOING sth for multiple months and years. Just not doing anything results in then projects dying in terms of the Zeitgeist and popularity

Edited April 11 by Kristie Kuwa

[FLAallday]

To lighten the mood…

 

 

 

[Kristie Kuwa]

And sadly, I feel like Bey will be buried by Taylor and Billie in the next few months and this grand first week will feel like a distant memory. In a competitive year like 2024, u gotta be ON and actually make yourself be heard.

All the songs sans THE are already HEAVILY tumbling down the charts, within 3 weeks of its release, CC will probably already be down to 10 mio streams. After Taylor's bomb, we are probably on Rennies level

 

Edited April 11 by Kristie Kuwa

[swissman]

6 minutes ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

Easy to answer: Grown Woman DEAD on Spotify because it was released too late and barely anyone listens to it.

Lemonade DEAD on streaming because it was released too late and thus many FANS even admit not listening to it that much. Its naive to believe excitement and investment of fans and the GP can be sustained if one just puts things on a halt and releases things years and years later.

It just doesnt work like that

 

Imho ur way too idealistic: TG is a lost cause, BIK made noise for 2 weeks and died afterwards. Lets not act like its consumed these days or remembered as sth grand in Beys career.

Her behavior DOES impact our pleasure

Those examples are completely different.

Grown Woman was a bonus video released in audio format to celebrate an anniversary with very little ceremony about it. See my third paragraph about why comparing the release of Put It In A Love Song video to long-anticipate visuals for  #1 albums with #1 hits is something far different than mere fan service.

 

The only new thing about Lemonade when it was released to streaming in 2019 was a bonus track. There's no comparison with a late streaming release and a not-yet-at-all released, anticipated visual for a work with GP-hits. Lemonade still went back into the Top Ten in 2019. The only new element, the last song, a demo, still debuted at #4 on the R&B Songs chart (not a major accomplishment of course, but speaks to the consumption of it at that moment). Fans had the ability to listen to Lemonade for three straight years. If they were not listening to it when on streaming that doesn't cannot compare to fans waiting for visuals they do not have.

 

About The Gift/Black is King again I'll post you to what I've already said (see the seventh paragraph). The Gift was already a flop. Using its limited success to suggest that RENAISSANCE/COWBOY CARTER visuals can't make any noise or impact would suggest that having two #1 hits, her biggest Hot 100 hit in her career, a hit tour, film, more streams and overall notoriety means nothing to the base-level interest people would have in seeing the visuals for these acts.

[swissman]

25 minutes ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

And mind you: You don't "prolong" an era when doing NOTHING for months and just randomly drop sth 1.5 years later. You prolong it by ACTIVELY DOING sth for multiple months and years. Just not doing anything results in then projects dying in terms of the Zeitgeist and popularity

And yet, the era is actually being prolonged whether it's how you'd like it to be, or not.

[CécredSpaces]

9 minutes ago, swissman said:

The only new element, the last song, a demo, still debuted at #4 on the R&B Songs chart (not a major accomplishment of course, but speaks to the consumption of it at that moment)

Wait. Doesn't Billboard count demos, remixes, live, acoustic, etc. as the same song? I checked Sorry's peak date and sure enough, it was 2016. They didn't even change it for the demo.

[Space&Time]

I see the points about The Gift via Black is King and to me it draws a straight line to the unknown as to what will happen with a visual release for the ACTS.

 

Black is King was an amazing film. But it literally disappated within a week or two from everyone's conscious. 
 

The BEYONCÉ album had a longer and more impactful chokehold on everyone because we digested the music through the visual. It was an insane experience.

 

Comparing the ACTS to The Gift is the closest example we have for how she is ordering the steps. However, the impact of the ACTS is extremely different and next level. So a visual for them would definitely be bigger.

 

Even still, because RENAISSANCE will be perhaps four years old upon the visual release and COWBOY CARTER perhaps two, most people will watch and be like "Oh".

Even if the TEXAS HOLD EM video is better than Single Ladies video, I don't imagine the Tik Tok craze will be like the initial wave it had nor would it's video have anywhere close to the cultural impact that Single Ladies did.

 

And to me, that's sad.

Edited April 11 by Space&Time

[swissman]

13 minutes ago, CécredSpaces said:

Wait. Doesn't Billboard count demos, remixes, live, acoustic, etc. as the same song? I checked Sorry's peak date and sure enough, it was 2016. They didn't even change it for the demo.

I'm not sure on that but according to Billboard it's categorized as its own version with its own peak. Though looking here I seem to have been wrong about it peaking at #4 (I had read that on Wikipedia) because Billboard says #19.

 

https://www.billboard.com/artist/beyonce/chart-history/bst/

[swissman]

16 minutes ago, Space&Time said:

I see the points about The Gift via Black is King and to me it draws a straight line to the unknown as to what will happen with a visual release for the ACTS.

 

Black is King was an amazing film. But it literally disappated within a week or two from everyone's conscious. 
 

The BEYONCÉ album had a longer and more impactful chokehold on everyone because we digested the music through the visual. It was an insane experience.

 

Comparing the ACTS to The Gift is the closest example we have for how she is ordering the steps. However, the impact of the ACTS is extremely different and next level. So a visual for them would definitely be bigger.

 

Even still, because RENAISSANCE will be perhaps four years old upon the visual release and COWBOY CARTER perhaps two, most people will watch and be like "Oh".

Even if the TEXAS HOLD EM video is better than Single Ladies video, I don't imagine the Tik Tok craze will be like the initial wave it had nor would it's video have anywhere close to the cultural impact that Single Ladies did.

 

And to me, that's sad.

I certainly don't think we should expect the visuals to have the impact of it being released right away in terms of creating a dance craze or anything. But my points have just been that there's other roads to impact, other ways that visual can be serviced to support and encapsulate an era, and that it's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

I actually think having something to "sum up" the era at the end can be a wise move. By the time act iii is done, who is caring about act i? Putting gate visuals out then would wrap up the era with a bow, let the former ones have a time back in the sun, and cement the magnitude of what she actually accomplished.

[ShouldersSideways]

20 minutes ago, Space&Time said:

 

Even still, because RENAISSANCE will be perhaps four years old upon the visual release and COWBOY CARTER perhaps two, most people will watch and be like "Oh".

Even if the TEXAS HOLD EM video is better than Single Ladies video, I don't imagine the Tik Tok craze will be like the initial wave it had nor would it's video have anywhere close to the cultural impact that Single Ladies did.

 

And to me, that's sad.

Happy to be proven wrong, but I feel like a lot of people really aren't going to care when the visual drops. The world is changing at a rapid pace so who even knows what 2025/2026 is going to look like. How many casual fans are going to care about videos for songs 2, 4 years old? Another great film like BIK going unnoticed will be really sad and I'm afraid that's what will happen. 

[swissman]

I think using the example that no one cared about Black is King after a few weeks therefore no one will care about act i/act ii visuals to be a bit disingenuous and forgets the actual history.

 

No one cared about Spirit and BIGGER upon release even with Spirit's video coming out within a week of the song's release and BIGGER's video being out immediately, the same day as its audio. Spirit famously served 99-OUT and BIGGER did not chart on the Hot 100.

 

Overall, what is clear is that she needs the proper rollout for the visuals when they do arrive so that it's not just a blip. Like I said, spacing them a week (or even two) apart, using it like she's launching a miniseries could help extend the moment. Or, if it's just one, then to make a big deal about it, hype it, etc.

[Brikenbur]

50 minutes ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

And sadly, I feel like Bey will be buried by Taylor and Billie in the next few months and this grand first week will feel like a distant memory. In a competitive year like 2024, u gotta be ON and actually make yourself be heard.

All the songs sans THE are already HEAVILY tumbling down the charts, within 3 weeks of its release, CC will probably already be down to 10 mio streams. After Taylor's bomb, we are probably on Rennies level

 

It's as if she's perfectly content, if not, wanting to tarnishing the latter half of her discography 

[Space&Time]

2 minutes ago, ShouldersSideways said:

Happy to be proven wrong, but I feel like a lot of people really aren't going to care when the visual drops. The world is changing at a rapid pace so who even knows what 2025/2026 is going to look like. How many casual fans are going to care about videos for songs 2, 4 years old? Another great film like BIK going unnoticed will be really sad and I'm afraid that's what will happen. 

My fear as well. I know us fans will be estactic to watch, I just don't see the GP caring much about 4 year old songs with a newly released visuals.

 

Mind you, there may be something unexpected or innovative in how it's released that I cannot imagine. But if it's just 'BOOM: Visuals out now on Amazon prime'. It's going to be a fan fantasy and that's pretty much it.

[Brikenbur]

She needs to combine act i/iivisuals … it could basically mimic the Nope storyline to some degree. And it's also weird that MonkeyPawProductions continues to post memes of the acts referencing that movie on their Stories. 

ANYWAY, she could still make a huge impact for both acts if some sort of visual tying them together is released by summer (at the latest) if teased correctly. Idk. I'm becoming numb to the "visual" idea at this point. 

[Space&Time]

2 minutes ago, swissman said:

I think using the example that no one cared about Black is King after a few weeks therefore no one will care about act i/act ii visuals to be a bit disingenuous and forgets the actual history.

 

No one cared about Spirit and BIGGER upon release even with Spirit's video coming out within a week of the song's release and BIGGER's video being out immediately, the same day as its audio. Spirit famously served 99-OUT and BIGGER did not chart on the Hot 100.

 

Overall, what is clear is that she needs the proper rollout for the visuals when they do arrive so that it's not just a blip. Like I said, spacing them a week (or even two) apart, using it like she's launching a miniseries could help extend the moment. Or, if it's just one, then to make a big deal about it, hype it, etc.

I love that idea. It will have to be something different; monumental.

 

I could see it more as a series.  She could do 6 installments. Like 

 

ACT i

ACT i Behind the scenes

ACT ii

ACT ii Behind the scenes

ACT iii

ACT iii Behind the scenes

 

And if it's a story, and the story builds and there are cliffhanger moments, I could see people being drawn in via word of mouth.

 

But a dump of videos is definitely not a good approach.  Like I said she may have a grand idea, that's beyond what we can imagine right now. I surely hope so.

 

[swissman]

7 minutes ago, Brikenbur said:

It's as if she's perfectly content, if not, wanting to tarnishing the latter half of her discography 

I would not say that releasing her best works, four times in a row, suggests she wants to tarnish her discography. If anything she's polishing it up, adding impeccable works to it that are impeccable with or without commercial success.

[swissman]

8 minutes ago, Space&Time said:

I love that idea. It will have to be something different; monumental.

 

I could see it more as a series.  She could do 6 installments. Like 

 

ACT i

ACT i Behind the scenes

ACT ii

ACT ii Behind the scenes

ACT iii

ACT iii Behind the scenes

 

And if it's a story, and the story builds and there are cliffhanger moments, I could see people being drawn in via word of mouth.

 

But a dump of videos is definitely not a good approach.  Like I said she may have a grand idea, that's beyond what we can imagine right now. I surely hope so.

 

I have trust in her that there will be some grand idea.

 

None of us could have predicted ST's surprise release nor visual album status, even though we knew she was filming several videos. None of us could have predicted Lemonade's subject matter, personal information, stunning beauty, mix of genres, etc. It wasn't even entirely clear it would be an album, as all we know was something was being premiered on HBO. Even Black is King being not really a "new" idea/format, we also didn't predict the magnitude of that project either. We didn't predict what she'd do with RENAISSANCE musically, we didn't predict that country would get her such an easy hit and produce one of her best albums of her entire career.

 

And I think that this is an issue that stans have in general, we tend to think "safe", and want for our faves that which is established and logical as far as getting/maintaining commercial success. Beyoncé, on the other hand, has done just about all she could at every step for 11 years to do things differently, her way, even at the extreme detriment of sales.

 

 

Edited April 11 by swissman

[Crayzik]

16 minutes ago, swissman said:

No one cared about Spirit and BIGGER upon release even with Spirit's video coming out within a week of the song's release and BIGGER's video being out immediately, the same day as its audio. Spirit famously served 99-OUT and BIGGER did not chart on the Hot 100.

 

I'm sure this is one of the reasons why she changed her strategy about the visuals. But we have to understand that the single choice is as important as a groundbreaking visual. If the public don't click with a song you cannot do much about it.

 

16 minutes ago, swissman said:

Overall, what is clear is that she needs the proper rollout for the visuals when they do arrive so that it's not just a blip. Like I said, spacing them a week (or even two) apart, using it like she's launching a miniseries could help extend the moment. Or, if it's just one, then to make a big deal about it, hype it, etc.

I think that a plan like this can be perfect to make the era last and additionally federate an audience, like a mini serie (if of course she recorded videos for all the tracks)

Edited April 11 by Crayzik

[swissman]

7 minutes ago, Crayzik said:

I'm sure this is one of the reasons why she changed her strategy about the visuals. But we have to understand that the single choice is as important as a groundbreaking visual. If the public don't click with a song you cannot do much about it.

 

I think that a plan like this can be perfect to make the era last and additionnally federate an audience, like a mini serie (if of course she recorded videos for all the tracks)

Yes, of course there's the fact that Spirit was just not going to be a hit and BIGGER was released a bit confusingly as like an add-on to Spirit, but that's also why I think The Gift / Black is King being used as a benchmark isn't fair. Clearly the GP was not here for the project from the start, so of course the visual album isn't going to have huge impact because why would it? If we do use it as an example, then acknowledging that visuals took a flop back into the Top Ten is a sign that visuals for a HIT album will be an entirely different thing.

 

 

Edited April 11 by swissman

[Space&Time]

13 minutes ago, swissman said:

I have trust in her that there will be some grand idea.

 

None of us could have predicted ST's surprise release nor visual album status, even though we knew she was filming several videos. None of us could have predicted Lemonade's subject matter, personal information, stunning beauty, mix of genres, etc. It wasn't even entirely clear it would be an album, as all we know was something was being premiered on HBO. Even Black is King being not really a "new" idea/format, we also didn't predict the magnitude of that project either. We didn't predict what she'd do with RENAISSANCE musically, we didn't predict that country would get her such an easy hit and produce one of her best albums of her entire career.

 

And I think that this is an issue that stans have in general, we tend to think "safe", and want for our faves that which is established and logical as far as getting/maintaining commercial success. Beyoncé, on the other hand, has done just about all she could at every step for 11 years to do things differently, her way, even at the extreme detriment of sales.

 

 

I mostly agree with everything your saying. 
However, I believe Beyoncé can miscalculate things. For example: The Gift, in general a flop in ways I'm sure she didn't expect. Secondly, to make a whole movie for essentially the project when no one cared about it was also an interesting choice.

 

Since our closest reference point is The Gift/Black is King, I'm putting the focus there. Differences between them and the ACTs for sure, but the ultimate outcome is far from predictable be it good or bad or in between.

[Space&Time]

Since we're bringing up Spirit, I just want to show some appreciation for that song. I believe Spirit actually changed my life. It saved me from tormenting myself with the past and encouraged me to be who I truly am. When I think back to the joy and success I have, I feel like that was a turning point. A message and wake up call I needed.

 

I don't care what no one says - SPIRIT is powerful.