Bicassie Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 The way ya’ll are trying to shift this whole lack of an era as something positive to cope with it is hilarious to me
SashaDevachelli Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 SAY BEYONCEEEE SAY BEYONCEEEE SAY BEYONCEEEEE You acting kinda shady, ain’t callin me baby, better say my name
swissman Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 The idea that Beyoncé cares even the slightest about getting a hit is very, very odd to me. Yes, I think she likes when she gets them. No, I don't think she wants to do anything to make that happen. We kind of need to all-out accept her decision on this and not treat it as if she's doing something wrong, otherwise things get very frustrating very fast. It was apparent most, I think, when the Nicki Minaj ***Flawless remix, which would've been a SURE a hit as any in her career was released via SoundCloud. For an artist of her commercial magnitude to do that, it really says a lot. And if it that remix premiered with a video...that would've been a #1 on lock, I think, given that was THE era for viral music video's making songs debut in the Top 3 of the Hot 100 with ease. BUT we know Beyoncé doesn't care for a hit. We still can...but there's a difference in wanting her songs to be hits and wanting her to want her songs to be hits. One is possible, the other requires her to look at her own career differently than she has for nearly 10 years now.
Cbreezy Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 Just now, G'Day said: Imagine breaking the seal for promo 6 months after your album comes out Maybe when she announces tour dates, everyone should wait 6 months to break the seal for purchasing tickets. Shade lol. Make no mistake, she's trying tf out of us. But I really try and pay attention to the nuggets of info/insights she gives us in interviews. She's made clear a few times now that she won't be the workhorse we knew her to be... citing family, other passions etc. Add to that the fact she pretty suddenly went from a mom of 1 to a mom of 3 with the arrival of the twins and it's clear that even she can't really live up to that whole "you have the same amount of hours as Beyonce" schtick anymore. She can be a machine when she wants to, but she's still a human with multiple commitments now and a fixed amount of time in the day. So, IMO, she's making a point to not do "more" but actively making the capacity she does have (which is less than before) do "more" for her. Hence, why she/Parkwood are presumably making an aggressive point to line-up the visuals with the tour etc for the perfect swirl of mutually beneficial "promo". So, if one thing gets delayed (as has clearly been the case) it ALL gets delayed. Annoyingly. She's "Beyonce", so I think they are underestimating that everything essentially would sell off her name if rolled out separately / more spaced out. But at the same time, had got the visuals nearer the album, but she was committed to NOT doing traditional promo until this year, then the visual frustration would instead be replaced with endless discourse about the lack of performances / tour announcement. It's all rather messy and not the only way of "working" the campaign, but I do feel there's a valid marketing justification for where we are now (given the broader circumstances).
Cbreezy Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Bicassie said: The way ya’ll are trying to shift this whole lack of an era as something positive to cope with it is hilarious to me I've always (always!) been pretty open about my belief that something went left (missed deadline? not happy with output? concept too ambitious? mess with media partner ala Netflix). This is NOT some kind of iconic, genius marketing plan. Rather, she / her team are making lemonade out of the lemons they've been dealt. No pun intended. That said, I refuse to see it as doom and gloom either. Primarily because there are a number of unintentional benefits (like the inadvertent elongation of the era, the mystique around the "strategy" (which ironically probably isn't a strategy at all), and the anticipation around the arrival of the visuals which is still tangible regardless of what dejected stans claim). She will inevitably "Olivia Pope" the situation to a) have always been the intention or b) work the delay to her benefit (e.g. "xyz appearance, special effects etc wouldn't have been possible had we not held back"). Several things can be true at once. Namely there being legit mess behind the scenes AND her finding a way to have it all still benefit the era. Maybe not to the max, but benefit it nonetheless. Edited January 3, 2023 by Cbreezy
swissman Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Cbreezy said: Shade lol. Make no mistake, she's trying tf out of us. But I really try and pay attention to the nuggets of info/insights she gives us in interviews. She's made clear a few times now that she won't be the workhorse we knew her to be... citing family, other passions etc. Add to that the fact she pretty suddenly went from a mom of 1 to a mom of 3 with the arrival of the twins and it's clear that even she can't really live up to that whole "you have the same amount of hours as Beyonce" schtick anymore. She can be a machine when she wants to, but she's still a human with multiple commitments now and a fixed amount of time in the day. So, IMO, she's making a point to not do "more" but actively making the capacity she does have (which is less than before) do "more" for her. Hence, why she/Parkwood are presumably making an aggressive point to line-up the visuals with the tour etc for the perfect swirl of mutually beneficial "promo". So, if one thing gets delayed (as has clearly been the case) it ALL gets delayed. Annoyingly. She's "Beyonce", so I think they are underestimating that everything essentially would sell off her name if rolled out separately / more spaced out. But at the same time, had got the visuals nearer the album, but she was committed to NOT doing traditional promo until this year, then the visual frustration would instead be replaced with endless discourse about the lack of performances / tour announcement. It's all rather messy and not the only way of "working" the campaign, but I do feel there's a valid marketing justification for where we are now (given the broader circumstances). this is a good point. the hive will complain no matter what she does. she's doing very little so there is perhaps more to complain about here...but the amount of times I've seen people complain about Lemonade's promo as if we didn't get five separate and entirely different, AMAZING performances including one at the Super Bowl, the BET Awards, the VMAs, the CMAs and the Grammys plus a visual album, a MET Gala appearance right after release, a tour days after the album came out, etc... There's always something to complain about. Edited January 3, 2023 by swissman
swissman Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 The benefit of the Beyoncé strategy is that things can go wrong behind-the-scenes and no one can know. And this is only possible if you more-or-less have a strong reason for your already hands-off approach, which here imo is to create more a personal (and not commercial) connection to the music. After that is decided and embarked upon, if you do need to delay a visual release it will naturally always fit into your plan. The opposite... making the era about what the fans get besides the music (ie. performances, tours, visuals) can only be feel messy if something is delayed. Had she put the teaser out with a release date, had she mentioned in an interview when the tour would be (roughly), had she added her name to an awards show performers list...any such change or deviation from the promised plan would only make the fans more angry, the public more confused, and her purpose (music-first) have far less meaning.
Cbreezy Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 13 minutes ago, swissman said: The idea that Beyoncé cares even the slightest about getting a hit is very, very odd to me. Yes, I think she likes when she gets them. No, I don't think she wants to do anything to make that happen. We kind of need to all-out accept her decision on this and not treat it as if she's doing something wrong, otherwise things get very frustrating very fast. It was apparent most, I think, when the Nicki Minaj ***Flawless remix, which would've been a SURE a hit as any in her career was released via SoundCloud. For an artist of her commercial magnitude to do that, it really says a lot. And if it that remix premiered with a video...that would've been a #1 on lock, I think, given that was THE era for viral music video's making songs debut in the Top 3 of the Hot 100 with ease. BUT we know Beyoncé doesn't care for a hit. We still can...but there's a difference in wanting her songs to be hits and wanting her to want her songs to be hits. One is possible, the other requires her to look at her own career differently than she has for nearly 10 years now. We're largely on the same page and I agree with a lot of this and your posts in general. BUT...I can't be convinced that Bey (or the team she employs) doesn't care about hit singles. I don't think it's her overt focus, but I believe, as a businesswoman, she rationalises "hits" as a pretty important tool enroute to her ultimate end goal = $$$$$. As big of a fanbase as we are, The Hive alone are not enough to fill the stadiums. There's a pretty huge GP component to Bey's success. So, no, she's not in a position to play uncommercial "artiste" if she wants butts in seats on her stadium tours... now and in the future. I can say with certainty that if she kept dropping niche tracks like much of what was on EIL or Black Parades, etc, it would start to eat into her GP relevance and by proxy her tour gross. As such, from a purely business standpoint, it quickly becomes clear why the success of universally-loved "hits" like BMS and Cuff It are very very important to the Beyonce brand as we know it today. Because there are literally loads of casual fans who will sprint to the Renaissance Tour to hear "that song from TikTok". Alongside, of course, stans, and general fans of Bey. Again, $$$$$. The moment her songs stop being playlisted on the streamers, worked at radio, and strategically seeded on the popping social media platforms, is when I'll buy that she doesn't "care".
Cbreezy Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, swissman said: The benefit of the Beyoncé strategy is that things can go wrong behind-the-scenes and no one can know. Lol at us backing and forthing, but I so strongly co-sign this. I've have never gotten the "why can't she just give us an update?" "Why not tell us the date?" "Why drop the trailer and then silence" noise from some corners of the fandom. It's simply not the "Beyonce" way and it's confusing af that there are stans who are well-versed with her approach, but still say such things. Much like she doesn't tweet her every waking thought or embarrass herself like other celebs, she's long embodied old school Hollywood. Aka: Say less, maintain the mystique, and project perfection. "Projecting perfection" is NOT her spilling her tea that she missed a deadline, didn't like xyz video cut, is reshooting, or changed streaming platform mid-filming due to some behind the scenes mess. That actively subtracts from the perfection that has always defined her brand. Some stans are losing their sh*t and conceptualizing chaos behind the scenes that may or not be true. But the reality of the matter is that she'll never confirm it and if we ever hear anything about it, trust that it will be in a way that is either cleaned all the way up and/or benefits the story of the visuals (aka needed time to make it the greatness you see before you). Let's not forget: a version of what we're presently experiencing literally happened in 2013 and we witnessed a masterclass in spin when Self Titled arrived. The messiness of Super Bowl with no new music, the confusion around wtf was happening with Grown Woman, Standing On The Sun, Bow Down snippet, long silences, random video shoot pics with zero context heading into the eventual slay of Self-Titled. I can't be convinced that she was executing some grand plan all along. More logically, sis was...figuring it out right in front of us. The silence helped her Olivia Pope what was also probably an equally messy situation behind the scenes. Moral of it all? Silence is golden...sometimes. Edited January 3, 2023 by Cbreezy
swissman Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Cbreezy said: We're largely on the same page and I agree with a lot of this and your posts in general. BUT...I can't be convinced that Bey (or the team she employs) doesn't care about hit singles. I don't think it's her overt focus, but I believe, as a businesswoman, she rationalises "hits" as a pretty important tool enroute to her ultimate end goal = $$$$$. As big of a fanbase as we are, The Hive alone are not enough to fill the stadiums. There's a pretty huge GP component to Bey's success. So, no, she's not in a position to play uncommercial "artiste" if she wants butts in seats on her stadium tours... now and in the future. I can say with certainty that if she kept dropping niche tracks like much of what was on EIL or Black Parades, etc, it would start to eat into her GP relevance and by proxy her tour gross. As such, from a purely business standpoint, it quickly becomes clear why the success of universally-loved "hits" like BMS and Cuff It are very very important to the Beyonce brand as we know it today. Because there are literally loads of casual fans who will sprint to the Renaissance Tour to hear "that song from TikTok". Alongside, of course, stans, and general fans of Bey. Again, $$$$$. The moment her songs stop being playlisted on the streamers, worked at radio, and strategically seeded on the popping social media platforms, is when I'll buy that she doesn't "care". I see what you're saying, and though I agree she understands the importance of hits, I don't think she cares about it. There's too many things one simply would never do if you thought a hit = brand = GP attention = touring = $. She launched MCSWT without a significant recent hit...something she might've easily attained had she released a new song at the Super Bowl. Instead, she chose to have her second song performed there be the last single release prior, End of Time, which never even charted in the US. Then, she later did perform a new song at the Super Bowl in 2016 and launched an entire tour with its name but didn't even bother to release for sale, streaming or to radio (Formation), making it essentially ineligible for hit status in any way until mere days before the tour was officially kicked off. When she toured OTRII, she did so without a hit and even when APESHIT was released and debuted at #13, she didn't add it or any EIL song to the setlist for about a month. [I know that here the selling point wasn't hits but the Super Bowl performances and Coachella, BUT I do think that in RENAISSANCE's case the selling point is her return to the stage after so long as an even bigger legend than she was in 2016 moreso than the success of BMS or CUFF IT] It's not that I think she doesn't want them if they come her way, or that she would never give an extra push when it actually would mean something (ie. releasing BMS remixes on RENAISSANCE release week to ensure a #1 hit), but her behaviour altogether and outside of this very specific and solitary example shows she's far more laissez-faire about her hits. CUFF IT went immediately back to Beyoncé doing basically nothing to get it into hit status. She'll put it on playlists, allow it to be known, send to radio, even seed on social media BUT it's up to the people if they like it or not, she's not playing a game to get it. There's no motive. There's no attempts to bring attention to it outside of a small handful of copy-led Instagram-stories posts. Edited January 3, 2023 by swissman
swissman Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, Cbreezy said: Lol at us backing and forthing, but I so strongly co-sign this. I've have never gotten the "why can't she just give us an update?" "Why not tell us the date?" "Why drop the trailer and then silence" noise from some corners of the fandom. It's simply not the "Beyonce" way and it's confusing af that there are stans who are well-versed with her approach, but still say such things. Much like she doesn't tweet her every waking thought or embarrass herself like other celebs, she's long embodied old school Hollywood. Aka: Say less, maintain the mystique, and project perfection. "Projecting perfection" is NOT her spilling her tea that she missed a deadline, didn't like xyz video cut, is reshooting, or changed streaming platform mid-filming due to some behind the scenes mess. That actively subtracts from the perfection that has always defined her brand. Some stans are losing their sh*t and conceptualizing chaos behind the scenes that may or not be true. But the reality of the matter is that she'll never confirm it and if we ever hear anything about it, trust that it will be in a way that is either cleaned all the way up and/or benefits the story of the visuals (aka needed time to make it the greatness you see before you). Let's not forget: a version of what we're presently experiencing literally happened in 2013 and we witnessed a masterclass in spin when Self Titled arrived. The messiness of Super Bowl with no new music, the confusion around wtf was happening with Grown Woman, Standing On The Sun, Bow Down snippet, long silences, random video shoot pics with zero context heading into the eventual slay of Self-Titled. I can't be convinced that she was executing some grand plan all along. More logically, sis was...figuring it out right in front of us. The silence helped her Olivia Pope what was also probably an equally messy situation behind the scenes. Moral of it all? Silence is golden...sometimes. definitely!!! and I personally find it a bit refreshing. I think popstars have cooled down more or less but even before her silent-era she was above the messiness of public accessibility. while her hit-making peers of 2008-2011 were having feuds and meltdowns on Twitter she made her first post in 2012. loool. I'm glad that she's found her groove in a way that's comfortable to her (it seems) while also brand-building and smart for her from an art-to-commerce standpoint.
Devin Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, Shelter said: It will be torture if act 2 and 3 is the same. I think by then she will be touring.
Space&Time Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 Imagine getting ACT 1 visuals simultaneously while receiving ACT 2 audio I wouldn't put it past her.
Space&Time Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Devin said: I think by then she will be touring. I think when you consider the grandeur of a back to back 3 ACT project that spans over 2/3 years with a tour included, I think this ACT 1 2 3 will be the last Beyonce album like we know. I imagine in 2027 she will drop the Jazz Standards album.
Mitsouko Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 10 minutes ago, Space&Time said: I imagine in 2027 she will drop the Jazz Standards album. God forbid
Lovett Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 Week 22 #13 RENAISSANCE #15 Lemonade #22 I Am... Sasha Fierce #23 B'Day #33 BEYONCÉ #37 Dangerously in Love #66 4
SashaDevachelli Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 SZA is really mother wow I hope we get a collab one day and it isn’t some stingy lazy thing like Pink+White
Hallad173 Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 26 minutes ago, MrLovett said: Week 22 #13 RENAISSANCE #15 Lemonade #22 I Am... Sasha Fierce #23 B'Day #33 BEYONCÉ #37 Dangerously in Love #66 4 4 was done so dirty
Doogle Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 3 hours ago, swissman said: Ya I'm not even chart hive but a Top Ten placement...these many months after its single release and without her doing a thing is BEYOND iconic. Also because I’m not forgetting how she was treated when 4 didn’t get a top ten. Now we’re 12 years later into her career and she’s potentially managed two with one album
Shelter Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 Just because she doesn’t care, doesn’t mean we don’t have to lol. CUFF HIT is a great song, and should be top 10.
swissman Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Shelter said: Just because she doesn’t care, doesn’t mean we don’t have to lol. CUFF HIT is a great song, and should be top 10. yes I support any fan-led movements to get her hits for songs she ignores.
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