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music historian says the music industry is dying


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RT Air

so what is the truth... apparently only labels will die and the artform of music will prevail, but at the same time mainstream music is worse than ever, indie artists fail to even reach the bubbling under, while the same dozen (label-backed) acts dominate all charts week after week :rip: I fail to see how this is going in a good direction

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beautiful player

This is because artists keep putting out rap/R&B Ariana imitation when the GeePee is clearly thirsty for some folky/acoustic pop, a la Folklore & Fearless.

 

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Erotic

I agree, everything changed after Gaga pivoted to acting. 

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It’s because the industry don’t have creative ways to promote and elongate their albums life cycle. 
There aren’t tv shows dedicated to music anymore, award shows is favoritism game, artists are talentless and should be stage trained before debuting. 

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brraap

don't worry, when R9 is posthumously released in 2060 it will be saved :giraffe:

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Starchild
1 hour ago, Cain said:

Yeah it's really noticable, I wish the industry invested in my fave but so far it's all been her own power

:bibliahh:

Jokes aside, im glad she is being invested on. 

 

1 hour ago, Brando said:

Good music will still continue to be made. Less money won't dull creativity. If anything it may improve it. Musicians should be making music because they want to, not just for the bling. Plus they'll be fine making hundreds of thousands of dollars instead of millions each year. Nowhere does it say that as a musician you need to be making millions. 

This. as a musician your supposed to care more about the music but every singer now thinks theyre entitled to millions which is ridiculous. Hopefully more creative artists come out when the labels finally stop controlling everything 

 

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pinknblue
2 hours ago, Katy V.! said:

The music industry is not dying (and never will), record companies and labels are. 

Please tell me what you think the music industry is if not these things

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PennywiseTheClown

I actually watched a video about this exact topic recently. A guy who's producer and works with the big labels commented on Stevie Nicks, Bob Dylan etc selling their rights for so much money. His conclusion was basically that big labels have little faith in new/young artists and their talent to write good music, so they rather invest their money in discographies that have proven their worth. They can license those songs for reissues, soundtracks, covers, samples etc. They think this will be more lucrative in the end based on projections they made.

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Sesame

You mean the music industry is dying for greedy old white middlemen who work at labels and take too much of the coin that an artist is bringing in. Good riddance to them :cm:

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dirrtydiana

Good that’s what they get for signing non singers, non performers and non stars.

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Ricardo1993

I knew the music industry was deteriorating when Bionic underperformed. 

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Saljju

Yeah I mean it's pretty clear... That's why R9 will never be here.

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Enoch
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, beautiful player said:

This is because artists keep putting out rap/R&B Ariana imitation when the GeePee is clearly thirsty for some folky/acoustic pop, a la Folklore & Fearless.

 

Why aren't the GEEPEE buying other folk artists works outside taylor then?

 

For every successful folk song there's 30 successful urban songs

Edited by Enoch
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Truth Teller

The problem is that music is being repurposed as background noise for studying / working or a snippet to create a TikTok with. So, popularity still exists but value doesn't. You're not going to pay for the album of an artist who has a couple of songs with catchy, viral hooks nor are you going to be playing that song for a long time after its virality dies down. You're also not going to pay for concert tickets for that artist or merch. So, basically the label has 2-3 months to get whatever money they can out of streams, which they need about 500 million of to get some significant money in. The industry needs more actual stars, that people are willing to spend big on

 

I think that's why indie artists are starting to thrive. They give their listeners some incentive, some motivation. "We HAVE to support this person, or else they'll go broke". Plus, the whole authenticity thing and knowing your money goes to the actual person and not a CEO, an A&R and a head of marketing department. I'm actually SHOCKED about how many idiots spend actual money to buy merch from YouTubers and online stars. They're engaging enough to make people feel like they need to support them. Music stars should find a way to do the same.

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Track10

I want to build a career in the music industry but **** like this makes me think I should run in the opposite direction.

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If U Seek Amy
29 minutes ago, Truth Teller said:

The problem is that music is being repurposed as background noise for studying / working or a snippet to create a TikTok with. So, popularity still exists but value doesn't. You're not going to pay for the album of an artist who has a couple of songs with catchy, viral hooks nor are you going to be playing that song for a long time after its virality dies down. You're also not going to pay for concert tickets for that artist or merch. So, basically the label has 2-3 months to get whatever money they can out of streams, which they need about 500 million of to get some significant money in. The industry needs more actual stars, that people are willing to spend big on

 

I think that's why indie artists are starting to thrive. They give their listeners some incentive, some motivation. "We HAVE to support this person, or else they'll go broke". Plus, the whole authenticity thing and knowing your money goes to the actual person and not a CEO, an A&R and a head of marketing department. I'm actually SHOCKED about how many idiots spend actual money to buy merch from YouTubers and online stars. They're engaging enough to make people feel like they need to support them. Music stars should find a way to do the same.

100% agree. Took the words right out of my mouth basically. 

 

I can't remember where, but I saw somewhere years ago how true "celebrities" are kind of dying. Our celebrities nowadays are more often YouTubers and TikTokers who while they may an audience usually of a few million or so, are very small compared to old time real celebrities that everyone generally knew. Idk how many times people have mentioned Youtubers with millions of subs I have never heard of. These kinds of platforms oversaturating the celeb market are making it harder to get a bite of the market share and thus profits. While its good because its gives the average individual a better chance at fame or whatever they desire, the money for being a celeb is going way down or at least you have to take advantage of your narrow window in most cases. On top of it the human race seems to be hopping from one viral thing to another faster than ever. So even if you make it you probably won't last long. 

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Planet Mars

The music industry is gonna die when people stop listening to music so that's never happening. What we are seeing is the fall of the big conglomerate labels, and the rise of independent artists through streaming platforms.

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aaron511
On 1/17/2021 at 10:57 AM, aaron511 said:

But are streams really not that profitable after all? For example Rihanna scored 120.000.000 streams on Spotify this year alone (in 15 days).

 

I heard Spotify pays $0,004 per stream so that makes it $480.000. Let's say she gets 20% of that (she only writes some of her songs but on the other hand she owns her masters + her biggest album was self-released) so it's $96.000. Isn't that quite f*cking amazing for 15 days? And remember it's only Spotify. It doesn't even count revenue from other streaming platforms (Apple Music, Tidal, YouTube), sales (iTunes and physical), publishing, radio plays etc.

 

I know it's an example of a very established artist and newbies have it worse but.... at the same time she hasn't released music in 5 years. So basically she earned a lot of money in two weeks without lifting a finger.

 

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong pls

This is my comment from a similar thread made in January this year.

 

Can somebody please explain what is it that I'm getting wrong? I'm genuinely curious

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  • #FreeBritney Activist
4 hours ago, ONOPKA said:

Justice for Tinashe

 

2 hours ago, Ricardo1993 said:

I knew the music industry was deteriorating when Bionic underperformed. 

 

these

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Mastamaind
Posted (edited)

As previously said in this thread, it's because labels/music companies sign non-singers, non-performers, non-stars but let's get more specific:

 

The amount of "urban" crap that gets shoved down everyone's throats is disgustingly flabbergasting. It's not even "rap" or "hip hop", it's just urban crap. Bitch, those people can't sing, can't write a beat, can't produce a beat, can't properly rap, can't perform, have no stage presence, don't know what a melody is, a hook. Lyrics? They are only about bragging about having sex, money or doing drugs, and not even interestingly, it's boring as hell 'cause it's copied and recycled ad nauseam from previous urban crap acts.

 

And it's not me not being "with the times": In reality the people who stream that ****, only stream it and can't even bother to buy or even stream the whole "artist"'s album (in quote marks 'cause they're not artists). They can't even bother to go to those urban crap concerts 'cause they literally play the track as it is and the urban crap act produces noises with their mouth over it, and I'm not talking about established hip hop artists like Cardi B or Travis Scott that can actually create quality hip hop material. I'm talking about the bunch of unknowns that obliterate the charts with urban crap for a hit, get their money, waste it and get forgotten.

 

There's so many ****ing idiots with no talent that go hard with their ****ing promo to promote their urban crap and well, 'cause it sounds like hip hop and people like hip hop they put it as background music, but it's not like they go crazy about it. However, because these ****ing idiots are all and only about the money, the energy they put to spam their bull**** is so big that they obliterate the streaming charts (at least the Top 200) with crap and of course, the industry, at least for mainstream acts, doesn't know what to do when these urban crap people spread like ****ing diseases.

 

Actual musicians, the ones that can write a melody, sing, craft beats, rap interestingly (if the genre calls for it), know how to play an instrument, produce or perform, put much more of their energy in creating quality material, sadly they don't have the same drive to promote their music as the urban crap acts. Some are not even sure if their material deserves a big push or aren't thinking they're gonna do millions with their music. So that's when a label comes to play but because the labels are so busy dealing with the urban crap debacle, interesting musicians stay independent.

 

The whole music industry is not going anywhere, quality musicians are still producing material and will continue to do so, they'll also most likely be cool with making money enough to make a decent living, the mainstream music industry however is indeed in a crisis, not dying but yeah, in a crisis. 

 

There was a time (not even that long ago) in the Top 40 where there was a variety of genres, there was something for everyone, now it's around +60-80% (depending on the time) urban crap and the rest for everyone else. It's not even about the pop girls, of course I'd love them to rule the charts, but I also love other genres and they are nowhere to be found, again, because of urban crap.

 

Why do you think 70s, 80s, 90s influenced songs become hits nowadays? Why songs that sample older songs become hits? People are thirsty for good music. That's why Adele could smash with ballads in the 2010s. People will continue to appreciate good music but it's labels' job to put good music in the mainstream and they're not doing it much because they're signing urban crap acts.

 

You know? People at labels used to have a strong sense of musicianship, of course they wanted profit but they knew how to spot a talented artist/act/band and promote them, now with the urban crap debacle they lost the sense of what's good and are even more lost in the social media/internet/streaming age where everything is so immediate. While they're planning an era, there's an urban crap idiot doing whatever it takes to go viral with its crap material so it wins the race to get a hit, then the labels give in and sign these types of "artists". Of course, this model is failed at its conception because it doesn't involve a musician so once the urban crap idiot gets their hit and their money, the drive to make more "music" is lost so they churn out even worse crap than the one that produced them a hit and they eventually disappear. Just look at the Top 20 of the Hot 100 of a couple of years ago in a random week, indentify the urban crap acts and tell me if they're still still making hits today. You could look for it yourself but I can tell you most of them are gone.

 

So of course, labels and music companies look at this scenario and have little hope for their commercial future. But it's all 'cause they're not signing musicians, they're signing money-hungry attention-seeking pieces of **** that do the easiest kind of "music" that can be done which is urban crap.

 

Actual musicians (and good ones at it) will work to keep making quality music, albums, singles but if labels keep signing urban crap pieces of ****, they won't have material to promote in the long run, 'cause they're not ****ing musicians.

 

What should labels do?

 

1. First of all, ****ing sign musicians, for ****'s sake. Like that's their ****ing job, discover talent, and today, it's as easy as browsing rateyourmusic.com or albumoftheyear.org. A solid, interesting musician shouldn't be struggling so hard to be found by a label nowadays. They could also have people browsing YouTube/Spotify/AM/etc, also social media sites. It's not that hard, for example, to find an artist/act/band with a modest independent-type of following that has good material.

 

2. Learn the today's ways of promoting music well, that's also their job, make longevity in eras possible in the streaming age. Influencers and social media stars can make money off their personalities, why can't they learn how to do the same thing with musicians? The Weeknd just proved it is possible to have a long era in the streaming age with 'After Hours'. And do you know why The Weeknd is still smashing with the album? Because it's good music and good music can do well commercially with good promo.

 

3. Invest in music videos. Music videos are vital for a commercial era. Just because MTV isn't the medium people are watching them, doesn't mean people don't want music videos. We're in the streaming age, more music videos and singles means more material to promote. Billie Eilish, Cardi B, Lil Nas X and Ariana Grande (to name some examples) are doing great numbers with their music videos, 'cause not only they release quality songs, they release visually appealing/well-made/creative music videos that complete the single experience. Even great music videos released before the streaming age have solid recurrent plays today in YouTube because people appreciate good music videos.

 

4. STOP SIGNING URBAN CRAP ACTS.  Learn to identify the musicians from the posers.

 

As I said before, the music industry as a whole is not going anywhere, the mainstream music industry is the one with a crisis. The entire profit of the industry right now is close to the biggest years of the CD age (the most profitable ever), so it's not as bad as some are saying but it's bad for popular music. You can find good music but it's most likely not in the charts. Yes, there's great music in the charts but the urban crap is too much right now.

 

That's it, that's the problem with the music industry right now, yes, I sound angry but that's because I'm a music fan and I hate the obliteration of talentless posers in the mainstream. I don't even hate commercial success-driven people, but you have to have at least the talent to back it up. It's like anyone can put on a cosplay of an "urban artist", pay a producer to make them a song and spam that crap to vomit-inducing levels.

 

**** those urban crap pieces of ****.

 

 

 

Edited by Mastamaind
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The_Bling
29 minutes ago, Mastamaind said:

As previously said in this thread, it's because labels/music companies sign non-singers, non-performers, non-stars but let's get more specific:

 

The amount of "urban" crap that gets shoved down everyone's throats is disgustingly flabbergasting. It's not even "rap" or "hip hop", it's just urban crap. Bitch, those people can't sing, can't write a beat, can't produce a beat, can't properly rap, can't perform, have no stage presence, don't know what a melody is, a hook. Lyrics? They are only about bragging about having sex, money or doing drugs, and not even interestingly, it's boring as hell 'cause it's copied and recycled ad nauseam from previous urban crap acts.

 

And it's not me not being "with the times": In reality the people who stream that ****, only stream it and can't even bother to buy or even stream the whole "artist"'s album (in quote marks 'cause they're not artists). They can't even bother to go to those urban crap concerts 'cause they literally play the track as it is and the urban crap act produces noises with their mouth over it, and I'm not talking about established hip hop artists like Cardi B or Travis Scott that can actually create quality hip hop material. I'm talking about the bunch of unknowns that obliterate the charts with urban crap for a hit, get their money, waste it and get forgotten.

 

There's so many ****ing idiots with no talent that go hard with their ****ing promo to promote their urban crap and well, 'cause it sounds like hip hop and people like hip hop they put it as background music, but it's not like they go crazy about it. However, because these ****ing idiots are all and only about the money, the energy they put to spam their bull**** is so big that they obliterate the streaming charts (at least the Top 200) with crap and of course, the industry, at least for mainstream acts, doesn't know what to do when these urban crap people spread like ****ing diseases.

 

Actual musicians, the ones that can write a melody, sing, craft beats, rap interestingly (if the genre calls for it), know how to play an instrument, produce or perform, put much more of their energy in creating quality material, sadly they don't have the same drive to promote their music as the urban crap acts. Some are not even sure if their material deserves a big push or aren't thinking they're gonna do millions with their music. So that's when a label comes to play but because the labels are so busy dealing with the urban crap debacle, interesting musicians stay independent.

 

The whole music industry is not going anywhere, quality musicians are still producing material and will continue to do so, they'll also most likely be cool with making money enough to make a decent living, the mainstream music industry however is indeed in a crisis, not dying but yeah, in a crisis. 

 

There was a time (not even that long ago) in the Top 40 where there was a variety of genres, there was something for everyone, now it's around +70-80% urban crap and the rest for everyone else. It's not even about the pop girls, of course I'd love them to rule the charts, but I also love other genres and they are nowhere to be found, again, because of urban crap.

 

Why do you think 70s, 80s, 90s influenced songs become hits nowadays? Why songs that sample older songs become hits? People are thirsty for good music. That's why Adele could smash with ballads in the 2010s. People will continue to appreciate good music but it's labels' job to put good music in the mainstream and they're not doing it because they're signing urban crap acts.

 

You know? People at labels used to have a strong sense of musicianship, of course they wanted profit but they knew how to spot a talented artist/act/band and promote them, now with the urban crap debacle they lost the sense of what's good and are even more lost in the social media/internet/streaming age where everything is so immediate. While they're planning an era, there's an urban crap idiot doing whatever it takes to go viral with its crap material so it wins the race to get a hit, then the labels give in and sign these type of "artists". Of course, this model is failed at its conception because it doesn't involve a musician so once the urban crap idiot gets their hit and their money, the drive to make more "music" is lost so they churn out even worse crap than the one that produced them a hit and they eventually disappear. Just look at the Top 20 of the Hot 100 of a couple of years ago in a random week, indentify the urban crap acts and tell me if they're still still making hits today. You could look for it yourself but I can tell you most of them are gone.

 

So of course, labels and music companies look at this scenario and have little hope for their commercial future. But it's all 'cause they're not signing musicians, they're signing money-hungry attention-seeking pieces of **** that do the easiest kind of "music" that can be done which is urban crap.

 

Actual musicians (and good ones at it) will work to keep making quality music, albums, singles but if labels keep signing urban crap pieces of ****, they won't have material to promote in the long run, 'cause they're not ****ing musicians.

 

What should labels do?

 

1. First of all, ****ing sign musicians, for ****'s sake. Like that's their ****ing job, discover talent, and today, it's as easy as browsing rateyourmusic.com or albumoftheyear.org. They could also have people browsing YouTube/Spotify/AM/etc, also social media sites. It's not that hard, for example, to find an artist/act/band with a modest independent-type of following that has good material.

 

2. Learn the today's ways of promoting music well, that's also their job, make longevity in eras possible in the streaming age. Influencers and social media stars can make money off their personalities, why can't they learn how to do the same thing with musicians? The Weeknd just proved it is possible to have a long era in the streaming age with 'After Hours'. And do you know why The Weeknd is still smashing with the album? Because it's good music and good music can do well commercially with good promo.

 

3. Invest in music videos. Music videos are vital for a commercial era. Just because MTV isn't the medium people are watching them, doesn't mean people don't want music videos. We're in the streaming age, more music videos and singles means more material to promote. Billie Eilish, Cardi B, Lil Nas X and Ariana Grande (to name some examples) are doing great numbers with their music videos, 'cause not only they release quality songs, they release visually appealing/well-made/creative music videos that complete the single experience. Even great music videos released before the streaming age have solid recurrent plays today in YouTube because people appreciate good music videos.

 

4.  STOP SIGNING URBAN CRAP ACTS.  Learn to identify the musicians from the posers.

 

As I said before, the music industry as a whole is not going anywhere, the mainstream music industry is the one with a crisis. The entire profit of the industry right now is close to the biggest years of the CD age (the most profitable ever), so it's not as bad as some are saying but it's bad for popular music. You can find good music but it's most likely not in the charts. Yes, there's great music in the charts but the urban crap is too much right now.

 

That's it, that's the problem with the music industry right now, yes, I sound angry but that's because I'm a music fan and I hate the obliteration of talentless posers in the mainstream. I don't even hate commercial success-driven people, but you have to have at least the talent to back it up. It's like anyone can put on a cosplay of an "urban artist", pay a producer to make them a song and spam that crap to vomit-inducing levels.

 

**** those urban crap pieces of ****.

 

 

 

This, verbatim :cm:

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St. Francis

That post :deadbanana:

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Truth Teller said:

The problem is that music is being repurposed as background noise for studying / working or a snippet to create a TikTok with. So, popularity still exists but value doesn't. You're not going to pay for the album of an artist who has a couple of songs with catchy, viral hooks nor are you going to be playing that song for a long time after its virality dies down. You're also not going to pay for concert tickets for that artist or merch. So, basically the label has 2-3 months to get whatever money they can out of streams, which they need about 500 million of to get some significant money in. The industry needs more actual stars, that people are willing to spend big on

 

I think that's why indie artists are starting to thrive. They give their listeners some incentive, some motivation. "We HAVE to support this person, or else they'll go broke". Plus, the whole authenticity thing and knowing your money goes to the actual person and not a CEO, an A&R and a head of marketing department. I'm actually SHOCKED about how many idiots spend actual money to buy merch from YouTubers and online stars. They're engaging enough to make people feel like they need to support them. Music stars should find a way to do the same.

 

8 hours ago, Trent W said:

Yeah the only thing dying are those trash monster label companies that just spam their 3-4 artists all over the place.

 

I’m ok with music corporations dying, we’ll get better art, and less trashy content if big labels lose control.

 

A lot more music diversity too.

 

:clap3: :clap3: 

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