DTF

Why did Taylor surpass Carrie?

Recommended Posts

allforyou
2 minutes ago, Quenn said:

My point exactly. Diminishing a certified country legend's impact, legacy and success isn't cute and that's on that.

I just find it weird people trying to downplay her impact when she was the first female country artist to sell a lot of records in places like Japan and Europe, without her there would be no Taylor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BlueTimberwolf

Regardless.....Carrie (or arguably Miranda Lambert) is the CURRENT Queen of Country.  Its 2020, not 1999.  Shania has legend status, but the crown passed back in the 00s to current holders.   Shania's time is done, and that's okay.  No one stays on top forever. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ampersand13

Better music :michael: and I don't mean that as shade as I really like Carrie but Taylor's songwriting capabilities, especially the narrative structure of some of her country songs is unparalleled by other acts. Same reason why Miranda couldn't reach her heights and why others won't either. Doesn't mean their music is bad by any means, Taylor was kind of just in a league of her own :michael:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quenn
Just now, allforyou said:

I just find it weird people trying to downplay her impact when she was the first female country artist to sell a lot of records in places like Japan and Europe, without her there would be no Taylor

This was my point all along. Taylor herself (and numerous other mainstream artists) have cited Shania as a major influence on their music. She's isn't hailed as the queen of country pop for nothing and is most definitely up there with all of the country legends. I mean, imagine trying to downplay the success of the woman who has 3 of the best selling COUNTRY albums of all time to her name :dies:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lawmak

Til "I Know You Won't" exist... Carrie is good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PoisonPill

Carrie never evolved and was comfortable staying in her country lane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nick_317

More talent

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HBK-79

Why are ya'll dragging Avril into this mess? She's not even the slightest bit country, not even on Day One.:hoetenks:

 

And Avril's fanbase and Carrie's fanbase don't even line up. No Carrie fan cares about Avril, and no Avril fan cares about Carrie.:bibliahh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bentley
6 hours ago, Quenn said:

This was my point all along. Taylor herself (and numerous other mainstream artists) have cited Shania as a major influence on their music. She's isn't hailed as the queen of country pop for nothing and is most definitely up there with all of the country legends. I mean, imagine trying to downplay the success of the woman who has 3 of the best selling COUNTRY albums of all time to her name :dies:

Queen of “country pop” not country. K 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mcohen

:deadbanana2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bentley
8 hours ago, BlueTimberwolf said:

Country with an asterisk.  The international version of Come On Over was remixed to be pop. Not seperate remixes, but the whole album. The "Country" version was not released outside of the US/Canada.  On the Intl. version, only the last few songs sound remotely country at all. 

@Quenn:giraffe:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ash12345

Taylor definitely was influenced by Shania, but Shania was also definitely transitioning into pop (just like Taylor did) to reach the broader audiences that she did.

 

And Taylor was already pretty big outside of country before 1989. Her cumulative pop (top 40/hac/ac) radio AI was probably already around 50% bigger than her country radio audience (30B vs 20B) before Shake It Off was released. Many of her country-pop singles received more AI from pop than country radio, especially Love Story and YBWM. Meanwhile Carrie only had one cross-over hit (although it was a very big one). I would say that Fearless was already more pop-leaning than Carrie's allegedly pop-leaning Cry Pretty. So obviously that helped Taylor reach wider audiences.

 

Taylor also had a more youthful image that helped her connect to younger fans, and put more effort into engaging with fans and had better lyrics to forge a stronger connection with fans which I think a helped her in achieving a rather different fanbase from Carrie's.

 

I'm not sure what Carrie's influence has been on country since I don't pay attention to country that much. Taylor has had some influence there (Kelsea Ballerini for sure, and Keith Urban likes her music quite a lot too), but I would say overall Taylor's influence has been greater on pop and indie-pop singer-songwriters.

 

Taylor and Carrie are also regarded differently within the country industry. I think Carrie is more likely to be regarded as the Queen of country tbh. Her success on country radio has been significantly greater. Taylor is more likely to be seen as one of the country industry's greatest ambassadors, since she came up through there but has much greater pull in markets outside American country music. They are also quite proud of her as an example of songwriting talent that came up through Nashville/American country music.

 

I also don't think Taylor shifting to pop makes her less authentic than Carrie who stayed in country. I think Taylor likes to try different things musically, and already in 2008, you could see that she was willing to expand her horizons beyond country music. Taylor committed to pursuing a country music career when she was only 10-12. That's an age at which your music tastes are still evolving a lot. I think her appreciation for certain country and country-pop artists like the Dixie Chicks, LeAnn Rimes and Shania Twain was genuine, but I think she was already getting into other genres in a pretty big way in high school. Like if you listen to her unreleased songs from 2004-2006, some of them are pretty pop/rock leaning or even pop-rock outright (ex Diary of Me).

 

You can look at the playlist of the most played songs on her iPod from just after Fearless' release and there's about as much Dirty South Hip Hop as there is country on there... Not to say that there isn't any country but there was also a decent amount of hip hop. But what there was really a lot of on her iPod was pop-rock and singer-songwriter type stuff, which makes sense since that's the main genre that Speak Now ended up being.

 

Maybe after her pop-rock phase, she started getting more into folksy stuff or 80s pop and that's how Red and 1989 happened. And then after reputation she shared a playlist of songs she was into at the time, and it had a lot of chill indie-pop vibes, which was reflected in the shift in her sound going from reputation to Lover/Folklore. 

 

I think Taylor does want her music to be successful, especially in her first few eras, but that mostly reflects in how much effort she puts into promo. I think her music's sound is mostly a reflection of her personal tastes at the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
J Legend X
16 hours ago, 1989 said:

The Carrie hate in this thread...:biblio:She’s THE best thing to come out of American Idol, has an amazing voice, and most of her discography is great. Carrie is amazing, and ATRL needs to show some respect. 
 

Carrie and Taylor were always friendly, too. Also, they only really “competed” against each other for maybe a year (2007-2008)? After the Fearless era, Taylor started the groundwork for a different career path, and Carrie focused in and became the new Queen of Country. Taylor might have been labeled ‘country’ for the Speak Now era and some of the Red era, but we all know how different it was. 
 

It feels so weird to compare these two today, when they’ve both excelled in what they intended to do. :michael:

AMEN...nothing else to say tbh !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StonedSoulPicnic
13 hours ago, Coklek92 said:

Queen of country music : Kitty Wells

Fixed.

 

OT:

Quote

 

Interviewer: A lot of your songs also have a pop edge to them as well. Have you ever considered going full pop like Taylor Swift has in recent years?

 

Carrie: That's not really my goal, that's not me at all. I grew up listening to country music. That's my home, and that's where I want to stay. I don't really do remixes or things like that - I just never have. Our goal in my team and what we've always talked about is making country music that everybody can like, you know.

 

Source: https://www.digitalspy.com/music/a674466/carrie-underwood-interview-i-wont-do-a-taylor-swift/

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
newwil7l
13 hours ago, Quenn said:

Her latest album did pretty well given the circumstances it was released in. And, her not being able to scan gold still doesn't change her enormous legacy and influence on today's mainstream artists no matter how you try to spin it. That brings me, who in the world is Carrie influencing these days? Gabby Barrett? :ahh:

Funny that you continue to ignore the fact the she has influences all the modern country girls and even some new pop girls like Halsey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mr. Blue_Shirt

This thread still has me screaming. The fact that the original topic is about Taylor and Carrie but most of the discussion are about Shania, Carrie and Avril for some reason :ahh: I'm shocked the mods don't close this thread for being off-topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sept

That ONE user keeps trying and claiming people dismissing Shania's legacy when THEY are the first one to bring Shania into the war

 

Quote

Shania will always be the queen of country. Carrie doesn't come close to her.

 

Shania is a queen, then what? As if we can't have a new queen :ace: We even have Queen Elizabeth I and II :ace:  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rep2000

The difference between Carrie and Taylor is that Carrie's core fan group is like hardcore country and much older than Taylor's, especially considering how they first debuted. The last time Carrie changed her sound up (Blown Away), she got terrible reviews and was told to "get back to her roots", even when the record itself isn't even bad!
While Taylor has plenty to rooms to change and evolve over the years, Carrie has never been offered the same creative liberty. They have very different positions in the country music scene.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bussea

This thread is so embarrassing :rip:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smilers

not this thread devolving into Carrie vs Avril :ahh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
State of Grace.

is this 2012 :bibliahh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
plumbartist

Because Taylor Swift is a strong independent and artistic woman who branches out musically for her own creative growth and it pays off...

 

The other girl, though... :sadviolin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ricky Wilson

Because being basic is a requeriment in country, the more [email protected] you are the more success you get

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mezik
2 hours ago, Rep2000 said:

The difference between Carrie and Taylor is that Carrie's core fan group is like hardcore country and much older than Taylor's, especially considering how they first debuted. The last time Carrie changed her sound up (Blown Away), she got terrible reviews and was told to "get back to her roots", even when the record itself isn't even bad!
While Taylor has plenty to rooms to change and evolve over the years, Carrie has never been offered the same creative liberty. They have very different positions in the country music scene.

Blown Away was a great album, the critics did her dirty for that one. Than on Storyteller they dragged her for not being as involved... than on Cry Pretty which she produced and wrote, the critics were like “why did she try new things”.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quenn
12 hours ago, Bentley said:

 

20 hours ago, CaptainMusic said:

Shania would’ve had the biggest country album with or without an international version.

 

Her album before that - The Woman In Me - an undeniably country album sold 16M and is the 3rd best selling country album just behind Garth Brooks’ fences which sold 16.64M. 
 

Come On Over would’ve easily outsold both of those albums regardless, it was already 14x Platinum in the US before the pop/international version was released there in 1999.

There you have it :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites