Communion

Progressive delegates to Biden: "Medicare For All or Bust"

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frenchyisback
2 hours ago, Bloo said:

 

 

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The Obama/Biden public option IS government healthcare. :rip:

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Horizon Flame

They’re are just under 4000 pledged delegates. lol. Good luck. 

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Communion
7 minutes ago, lostcause said:

“Government health insurance plan for all” does NOT mean the same thing as Bernies/social dems all or none form of m4a. This issue is not black and white like you’re trying to paint it. There are many forms m4a can take and many people who support different plans. For example, for all who want it also counts as full coverage even though it doesn’t abolish private health care. You’re not slick

You literally have no clue what youre talking about. 

 

There is only one form of Single Payer...and that is Single payer. Medicare For All is single payer. That's what the phrase mean. 

 

It is also the *only* universal healthcare proposed the entire primary. 

 

Universal healthcare in every developed nation means there is a government plan everyone is enrolled into automatically, is financed through taxing everyone, and everyone is entitled to use it because their taxes fund it. 

 

So that is what UHC means. It means there is a baseline of care every single person in a country is entitled to receiving, largely for free when it comes to at leaat.primary care.

 

In most developed countries, UHC means:

- 100%: Government Plan

 

So all people are at least on the government plan and then you can buy supplemental care in some countries and not in others depending on service. 

 

This is what the public option proposes:

- 35% Employer-Based Private

- 20% Medicare

- 20% Self-Bought Private

- 10% Medicaid

- 10% Self-Bought Public Option

- 05% Medicare, Part B

 

The claim is if you add all those up, you'd have "universal" coverage since they add up to 100% but we know that's not true. If you lose your job, you no longer have coverage. If you are on Medicaid or the public option, you won't be able to see certain doctors. If you have private insurance even from your employer, you often cannot utilize it because you cannot afford to hit your deductible. 

 

No other country in the world has a system like that proposed by the public option that centrists want. Yes, some countries allow duplicative coverage, but it is duplicative because there is a baseline of coverage everyone has that justifies the necessary taxation to actually fund universal healthcare. 

 

And those are the facts. Bernie proposed single payer which Canada uses and everyone else proposed keeping private healthcare a monopoly which literally is not done in any other developed nation in the world. 

 

Only one universal healthcare plan has been proposed by any Democrat and that is Senator Bernard Sanders' Medicare For All single-payer plan. 

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Communion
18 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

The Obama/Biden public option IS government healthcare. :rip:

For all means everyone gets it, not an option buy-in you can opt-out of. How are some of you so confident yet so clueless. 

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Reza

Biden literally backs the Affordable care act 100%. :toofunny3: These people are a joke.

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frenchyisback
8 minutes ago, Communion said:

For all means everyone gets it, not an option buy-in you can opt-out of. How are some of you so confident yet so clueless. 

There is a health insurance mandate in Obamacare.  Trump just chose to not follow the law.

So a public option would be all you need to add. 

:rip:

 

 

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Bloo
44 minutes ago, lostcause said:

“Government health insurance plan for all” does NOT mean the same thing as Bernies/social dems all or none form of m4a. This issue is not black and white like you’re trying to paint it. There are many forms m4a can take and many people who support different plans. For example, for all who want it also counts as full coverage even though it doesn’t abolish private health care. You’re not slick.

Which is why I said “single-payer”. Regardless, there are numerous other polls showing that M4A has solid support among independent voters and nearly unanimous support among democratic voters. 

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Sanjja
1 minute ago, Reza said:

Biden literally backs the Affordable care act 100%. :toofunny3: These people are a joke.

:deadbanana:  I-

 

Idk where to begin 

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Reza
2 hours ago, Icarus said:

Bernie Bros giving one last final push to bring down Democrats for Daddy Trump :weeps::heart: before they go into that good night. The perfect ending to their legacy. Farewell!

:dies:

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Bloo
33 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

The Obama/Biden public option IS government healthcare. :rip:

Public option is literally a policy where you “opt-in” (i.e., not for all). A universal healthcare plan analogous to all other western countries puts everyone in the same system rather than leaving it up to people to opt into it. 

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Communion

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

There is a health insurance mandate in Obamacare.  Trump just chose to not follow the law.

So a public option would be all you need to add. 

:rip:

Health insurance mandates forces people to buy healthcare. Universal healthcare means people are GIVEN healthcare. What's not clicking? 

 

The system you are proposing- healthcare dominated by private for-profit insurance exists nowhere else in the developed world. For every exception you can find, there is just as many caveats. 

 

In Germany they get to pick between dozen of sickness funds, but sickness funds are highly regulated and must operate as non-profits. 

 

Canada's system is decentralized to the providences but there are still many rules on duplicative coverage.

 

Norwegians may have a small co-pay for select services in their universal plan, but their individual costs are capped to what amounts to 1/20th of what the average American private insurance plan lists as the out of pocket maximum.

 

The system you want sucks which is why no other nation replicates it. 

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frenchyisback
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

The system you want sucks which is why no other nation replicates it. 

People in the US do not want to wait months in line to see a doctor either. That's why you keep losing elections after elections on the topic.

 

The system you want sucks that's why Canadian politicians gets their healthcare in the US while they stick their poor populace with "medicare for all" back home.

Edited by frenchyisback

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Communion
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

People in the US do not want to wait months in line to see a doctor either. That's why you keep losing elections after elections on the topic.

 

The system you want sucks that's why Canadian politicians gets their healthcare in the US while they stick their poor populace with "medicare for all" back home.

You literally have no clue what you're talking about, are continously wrong on every item you bring up, and your posts bragging about how you make nearly six figures and how poor people should just work harder if they don't want to die displays a violent and harmful hatred for poor people. Your posts are continually displays of classism and your politic goals seek to malign poor people for your financial benefit. 

 

Canadians display some of the highest satisfaction with their healthcare system in the world, poor AMERICANS wait for healthcare that never comes, and politicians like Joe Biden would sell their soul for Blue Cross Blue Shield coin no matter how many poor people die directly due to his awful healthcare plans. 

 

I hope you are taxed beyond your imagination to teach you that your hatred of poor people is a form of bigotry like any other. I hope President AOC in 2028 expropriates without compensation your house and wealth and gives them to the poor people you view as vermin. 

Edited by Communion

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frenchyisback
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

Canadians display some of the highest satisfaction with their healthcare system in the world, poor people wait for healthcare that never comes, and politicians like Joe Biden would sell their soul for Blue Cross Blue Shield coin no matter how many poor people die directly due to Biden's awful healthcare plans. 

 

YET... I find it so interesting that only 70% of Canadian love their own healthcare & 73% like the national system. :lmao:

 

rqzugkedgukjsnzqhrvrbq

 

:rip:

Edited by frenchyisback

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Communion
4 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

YET... 

rqzugkedgukjsnzqhrvrbq

 

:rip:

....did you read the second column? 

 

The table you just shared lists the countries with the largest difference in people satisfied with the care they receive versus CONFIDENCE IN THE THEIR COUNTRY'S SYSTEM TO DELIVER IT. America is #2 for those with the highest dissatisfaction between the care and the system. 

 

Why would you post this? :skull:

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frenchyisback
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Communion said:

....did you read the second column? 

 

The table you just shared lists the countries with the largest difference in people satisfied with the care they receive versus CONFIDENCE IN THE THEIR COUNTRY'S SYSTEM TO DELIVER IT. America is #2 for those with the highest dissatisfaction between the care and the system. 

 

Why would you post this? :skull:

I did!

We have a federal country that splits the healthcare between state, cities & feds.

Most people are VERY happy with what's available to them between the 3. :fan:

 

Not that people with private insurance are more satisfied than people with Medicare/Medicaid. :rip:

 

 

The quality of healthcare you receive

Your healthcare coverage

 

% Excellent/Good

% Excellent/Good

National adults

80

69

Medicaid/Medicare

79

79

Private insurance

85

70

18-29

74

57

30-49

78

65

50-64

80

69

65+

88

88

White

84

74

Nonwhite

72

58

Less than $30,000

60

56

$30,000-$74,999

83

68

$75,000 or more

86

73

Republican

85

76

Independent

75

62

Democrat

82

71

 

Gallup, Nov. 1-11, 2018

 

Edited by frenchyisback

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frenchyisback
22 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

Canadians display some of the highest satisfaction with their healthcare system in the world,

Canada Ranks Lowest in Health-Care Satisfaction

TARA LOSINSKI |

FEBRUARY 10TH, 2018

 

https://www.everythingzoomer.com/health/2018/02/10/canada-ranks-lowest-health-care-satisfaction/

 

 

  Quote

 

The 2017 edition of The Commonwealth Fund’s annual International Health Policy Survey reported a 76 per cent average satisfaction rating, with the Swiss topping out at 84 per cent. Little surprise, Switzerland’s high overall health rating was among the reasons it made No. 3 on the UN’s best countries to live list in 2017. (Canada came in at 10th best, incidentally, with education achievement being our distinction.)

As for the issues that may have cost us that 33 per cent on the Health Policy Survey, here are some of the findings:

3 out of 5 Canadians reported waiting at least four weeks to see a specialist – highest among the 11 countries surveyed

12 per cent said test results were unavailable at follow-up appointments, and 11 per cent had received conflicting information from different health care providers

One quarter of respondents did not have someone review the purpose of each of their medications

1 out of 5 did not receive written information on what to do after hospital discharge or did not have follow-up care arranged

 

 

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Communion
5 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

I did!

We have a federal country that splits the healthcare between state, cities & feds.

Most people are VERY happy with what's available to them between the 3. :fan:

 

Not that people with private insurance are more satisfied than people with Medicare/Medicaid. :rip:

I'm not trying to be mean, but I think you may be a bit confused and don't understand what you're trying to read. 

 

The second column is not ranking how people feel about Medicaid/Medicare. National there means the system of the nation, which in America is private. Not national as government-provided. 

 

The very chart you posted high satisfaction in the amount and quality of doctors and providers with some of the lowest proportionate satisfaction in how the system those doctors work in is set up. 

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lostcause
1 hour ago, Bloo said:

Public option is literally a policy where you “opt-in” (i.e., not for all). A universal healthcare plan analogous to all other western countries puts everyone in the same system rather than leaving it up to people to opt into it. 

Most European countries have a system of tightly regulated, competing private health insurance companies, with government subsidies available for citizens who cannot afford coverage.” literal second line on the Wikipedia page for European health care. The UKs NHS is the exception Not the rule (and not one of the best in Europe). Idk why it’s so hard to understand that there are countless ways to achieve universal healthcare. Bernies plan is not the standard anywhere. The Netherlands has a nearly 100% private system and arguably has the best health care in Europe.

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Bloo
2 minutes ago, lostcause said:

Most European countries have a system of tightly regulated, competing private health insurance companies, with government subsidies available for citizens who cannot afford coverage.” literal second line on the Wikipedia page for European health care. The UKs NHS is the exception Not the rule (and not one of the best in Europe). Idk why it’s so hard to understand that there are countless ways to achieve universal healthcare. Bernies plan is not the standard anywhere. The Netherlands has a nearly 100% private system and arguably has the best health care in Europe.

The Dutch system mandates all citizens be in the same system that is funded by the state (i.e., single-payer). Not once have I mentioned the notion of universal healthcare being uniquely tied to the abolishment of private health insurance plans. However, provided a public option where people voluntarily opt-in is patently not equivalent to universal healthcare.

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Communion
57 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

Canada Ranks Lowest in Health-Care Satisfaction

TARA LOSINSKI |

FEBRUARY 10TH, 2018

 

https://www.everythingzoomer.com/health/2018/02/10/canada-ranks-lowest-health-care-satisfaction/

 

So because the original study you linked to proved you wrong because it actually separated satisfaction of care and confidence in system, you're now trying to link to a study that purposefully obscures these two things? :skull:

 

Based on your first graph, Canada got a negative value, which meant that there were Canadians who were personally unhappy with the quality of care they had access to in that moment yet still thought the Canadian system was valuable for the overall greater good. Meanwhile Americans love their doctors continually in spite of the healthcare system.

 

You both continually point to places in Europe where there is duplicative coverage or (non-profit) private care @lostcause but then why did NO DEMOCRATS propose such a plan similar to the Dutch model? A public option is not the Dutch model. Why isn't Biden proposing a government plan everyone is on and then people can have duplicative coverage if they want?

 

The very answers regarding why are the exact reasons why Medicare For All is the only system that can provide Americans with both universal and affordable healthcare.

 

No one has argued that Americans hate their doctors. We're literally arguing people love their doctors, not Aetna.

 

You're dabbling in GOP propaganda where they argue that we have such good doctors due to our private, for-profit system.

 

The majority of doctors and nurses disagree with that notion and want you to stop weaponizing how respected doctors are to help you justify denying poor people equal quality of healthcare:

 

 

 

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frenchyisback
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Communion said:

 

 

The majority of doctors and nurses disagree with that notion and want you to stop weaponizing how respected doctors are to help you justify denying poor people equal quality of healthcare:

 

 

 

How does the 2nd largest physician group represents the majority of doctors? The AMA is larger and they still oppose medicare for all.

 

 

Quote

 

AMA says yes to strengthening ACA, no to ending opposition to 'Medicare-for-All' single-payer reform

 

https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/practices/ama-says-yes-to-strengthening-aca-no-to-ending-opposition-to-medicare-for-all-single

 

 

Also, you never talk about the longer waits in Canada, UK and other Europeans countries. You can not just dismiss concerns of people who do enjoy their coverage and except them to just submit to your priorities.

Edited by frenchyisback

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Mother Earth

Too many "progressives" pull their tu quoque card and go "You don't want poor people to have healthcare? :isudumblmao:" when you mention the fact that wiping out private insurance will NEVER happen, and the plan proposed by Bernie Sanders is a complete JOKE. Joe Biden isn't going to back Medicare for All because he knows it would BOMB and Democrats would lose gloriously in 2024. Aren't Democrats tired of proposing radical healthcare bills that are doomed from the start, just to HAND the public reasons to vote Republican in the next election, so the Republicans can dismantle it? Are we not TIRED of this cycle?

 

I'm starting not to care about the elections anymore. Go ahead and BUST.  

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Communion
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

Also, you never talk about the longer waits in Canada, UK and other Europeans countries. 

The AMA is the largest union but does not singularly represent a majority of doctors and professionals - their representation includes the grasstops of the healthcare world: the heads with a financial interest in maintaining the for-profit system, pharmacists who are making blood money, etc. And even then, actual doctors and nurses are getting so tired of not being able to deliver care to their patients that the AMA has been forced to consider dropping their opposition to M4A due to demand within the union. The backlash inside the union was so strong that the AMA had to quit a coalition who promoted anti-M4A talking points.

 

The majority of doctors and nurses - represented by other groups besides AMA who has had to relinquish its status as an ally to anti-M4A lobbyists - support Medicare For All. 

 

 

As well, there are """longer""" waits for people who do not have life-threatening conditions. No one is denied care if they have an immediate medical need. That's how healthcare is supposed to work. :skull:

 

Healthcare is not a commodity you can throw money at because you think you deserve to see a doctor first before a sicker poor person. You don't want healthcare - you want class supremacy. Poor people do not deserve worse quality of care just because you think they're lesser than you. 

 

Also, Canadians are still largely happy with their system with many wanting to EXPAND the government plan to include prescriptions, dental and vision. Many feel the single-payer plan should expand. The issue with few doctors in rural communities, for example, is more to do with conservatives trying to underfund the system than a symptom of single-payer. Let alone this not being a problem for America since Sanders & Jayapal's M4A bills have the single largest investment doe for things like training and educating doctors, new doctors in rural areas, funding for rural hospitals, etc. in decades. Sanders' bill is over a 100 pages long. Have you even read it?

 

Also, Canada's wait--times are only "longer" if you ignore and purposefully don't chart how many Americans *never* go to a doctor because they cannot afford to. Even the AARP is saying you're full of ****:

 

 

Quote

Myth #5: Canada rations health care; the United States doesn’t.

This one’s a little bit tricky. The truth is, Canada may “ration” by making people wait for some things, but here in the United States we also “ration” — by cost.

 

https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-03-2012/myths-canada-health-care.html

 

Which is what the issue comes down to. You ignore how many Americans die due to not being able to afford to go to a doctor - the ultimate "waitlist" - and fearmonger lies about Canada because you have money, are extremely privileged, and want to hoard healthcare for yourself so more and more poor people receive worse quality of care, or no care at all, with you literally not caring whether they die or not. Poor people matter. Working class people don't deserve to die just because you don't want to share a waiting room with someone who makes less money than you.

Edited by Communion

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Sergi91

Wow these so called progressives must really love trump and are willing to risk whatever reputation they have left. :skull:

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