ATRL Administration

Zero Tolerance Policy 2020

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Ryan
15 minutes ago, Jeremiah said:

Basically the sensitivity and detection by the staff on offensive posts. Typical case is Britney. Will it be allowed posts that make fun of her conservatorship situation?

 

Btw, is it possible to let know if a report was applied? Or that’s asking for too much?

I’m not sure why, when we specifically referenced criteria in the OP, these other instances of offensive or insensitive behavior is being brought up. Again, it’s whataboutism. Those posts do not fall under the ZTP.

 

ATRL staff takes issues surrounding mental health seriously. Especially as many of us have our own struggles.

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Raspberry Swirl
Posted (edited)

Thank you for the new policy. I only ask that some discretion be taken with reports of misgendering, especially when the public figure being misgendered is not particularly well known or whose preferred gender isn't immediately apparent (e.g. Arca, Ezra Miller). It appears some users would reach for the report button immediately rather than point out the often honest error.

 

Obviously, comments like "I don't care, they look like a man" are another story.

Edited by Raspberry Swirl

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Orsay

Thank you mods :clap3:

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Jeremiah
14 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

I only message a member in exceptional circumstances, usually when the post has directly upset them personally and I want to comfort and reassure them, and have only done so a handful of times. It would be way to hard to provide an outcome for every report when you often process 20-30 at a time and have to deal with forum issues like duplicate warnings and 503 errors. 

 

If you really want a response regarding a report then send a HR, but keep in mind not all are responded to. 

Thanks for your replies, it shows you’re working with good intentions.

 

I was just curious if it was possible. If I’m not mistaken, in Classic ATRL it was visible on a post if it had received a warning. I personally don’t need a notification on the decision over the report, just thought it’d be more helpful and transparent.

 

 

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feuxtography

Thankyou for clarifying this policy. Though, as a mod has said the JK Rowling thread was a good case study, I also think under this policy it makes most of the discussions in that thread banable.

 

I'm not talking about the people who were directly being offensive. But as some of our trans members had expressed, even the posts saying "I agree with JK Rowling" were transphobic, and would fall under the ZTP.

I think there's a very wobbly fence on what is considered discussion, debate, and offensive, as different members have different interpretations as what is personally hurtful to them.

I think these discussions should not be allowed, as there is no invitation of a secular opinion on the matter.

 

Just my two cents though, I think it is easy to avoid those threads if you dont align completely with a certain opinion, so its not really a big deal. I understand some people see things as gray, and others more black and white on matters like that. 

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Oxygen
1 minute ago, Jeremiah said:

Thanks for your replies, it shows you’re working with good intentions.

 

I was just curious if it was possible. If I’m not mistaken, in Classic ATRL it was visible on a post if it had received a warning. I personally don’t need a notification on the decision over the report, just thought it’d be more helpful and transparent.

Oh! I don't think it's possible right now, but it would be very helpful.

 

Often we will get continuous reports for a post which has been already been warned, and often there is no use in hiding the post if it has been quoted countless times in the thread. This however leads to members thinking we are not doing anything in response to it. If the post is extremely troublesome though, I (and I'm sure other moderators) normally take the time to hide all posts in the thread that mention it.

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Bloo
13 minutes ago, Raspberry Swirl said:

Thank you for the new policy. I only ask that some discretion be taken with reports of misgendering, especially when the public figure being misgendered is not particularly well known or whose preferred gender isn't immediately apparent (e.g. Arca, Ezra Miller). It appears some users would reach for the report button immediately rather than point out the often honest error.

 

Obviously, comments like "I don't care, they look like a man" are another story.

Thank you for the comment! That's definitely something we keep in mind. But, fortunately, when reports related to misgendering occur, in my experience, it's usually pretty apparent it's from a place of malicious intent. 

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Jeremiah
11 minutes ago, Ryan said:

I’m not sure why, when we specifically referenced criteria in the OP, these other instances of offensive or insensitive behavior is being brought up. Again, it’s whataboutism. Those posts do not fall under the ZTP.

 

ATRL staff takes issues surrounding mental health seriously. Especially as many of us have our own struggles.

There’s nothing of whataboutism on posts such as “can she? Her father controls her :(“, “at least my fave has rights,” “she looks out of her medication.” These go beyond mental health offense, but human decency.

 

How on Earth would that be allowed when the intention is clear?

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Oxygen
2 minutes ago, feuxtography said:

Thankyou for clarifying this policy. Though, as a mod has said the JK Rowling thread was a good case study, I also think under this policy it makes most of the discussions in that thread banable.

 

I'm not talking about the people who were directly being offensive. But as some of our trans members had expressed, even the posts saying "I agree with JK Rowling" were transphobic, and would fall under the ZTP.

I think there's a very wobbly fence on what is considered discussion, debate, and offensive, as different members have different interpretations as what is personally hurtful to them.

I think these discussions should not be allowed, as there is no invitation of a secular opinion on the matter.

 

Just my two cents though, I think it is easy to avoid those threads if you dont align completely with a certain opinion, so its not really a big deal. I understand some people see things as gray, and others more black and white on matters like that. 

Moderating that thread was very difficult for most of the team, and we often kept many reports "under review" for quite a while to deliberate on them. 

 

Ultimately while we do believe freedom of speech is important, the ATRL team has a duty to ensure all members feel safe and inclusive for who they are, and that takes priority.

 

I do note however that the ATRL staff does reserve the right to close any thread in The Lounge in relation to sensitive topics, to prevent what you are referring to from happening. 

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feuxtography
Just now, Oxygen said:

Moderating that thread was very difficult for most of the team, and we often kept many reports "under review" for quite a while to deliberate on them. 

 

Ultimately while we do believe freedom of speech is important, the ATRL team has a duty to ensure all members feel safe and inclusive for who they are, and that takes priority.

 

I do note however that the ATRL staff does reserve the right to close any thread in The Lounge in relation to sensitive topics, to prevent what you are referring to from happening. 

I imagine, there were a lot of layers to that essay so it definitely wasn't a one-size-fits-all for some people. But I do support having a safe, fun environment for everyone here. Thanks for dealing with all the drama!

 

:clap3:

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Oxygen
15 minutes ago, Jeremiah said:

There’s nothing of whataboutism on posts such as “can she? Her father controls her :(“, “at least my fave has rights,” “she looks out of her medication.” These go beyond mental health offense, but human decency.

 

How on Earth would that be allowed when the intention is clear?

In my experience, these will attract an Insensitive or a Trolling warning. These posts aren't allowed as per the ATRL Rules, but they just aren't captured by the ZTP which focuses more on discrimination against protected classes of people such as race, gender and sexuality. 

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Raspberry Swirl
3 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Thank you for the comment! That's definitely something we keep in mind. But, fortunately, when reports related to misgendering occur, in my experience, it's usually pretty apparent it's from a place of malicious intent. 

Thank you for your response :flower:.  This is very reassuring.

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Jeremiah
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

Oh! I don't think it's possible right now, but it would be very helpful.

 

Often we will get continuous reports for a post which has been already been warned, and often there is no use in hiding the post if it has been quoted countless times in the thread. This however leads to members thinking we are not doing anything in response to it. If the post is extremely troublesome though, I (and I'm sure other moderators) normally take the time to hide all posts in the thread that mention it.

It must be tough for you, tbh. I don’t really think hiding a post is good, but at the same time it’s possibly the only way to not let things get out of control.

 

It’d be great to have the “warned sign,” it’d “calm” some and sounds like it’d save the staff from a lot of work.

 

12 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

In my experience, these will attract an Insensitive or a Trolling warning. These posts aren't allowed as per the ATRL Rules, but they just aren't captured by the ZTP which focuses more on discrimination against protected classes of people. 

Oh! My bad then. Thanks for the replies. Keep up the great work!

Edited by ATRL Feedback
Warned

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Reinvention

We definitely all know that ATRL users come from a broad range of backgrounds with different ethnicties, sexualities, race and gender all coming into play so none of us are delusional that this is gonna be clear cut or easy. However we do regularly question reported and questionable content, discuss them amongst ourselves and question our fellow moderator's warnings. No one is "non bias" so best we can do is to be as neutral as possible, and to have collective agreement. 

 

The gist of it is - we're not fools and we generally know when a user is trying it, or has genuinely made a mistake. Not all the time, but I think any regular ATRL member knows what's up. 

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Oxygen
5 minutes ago, Jeremiah said:

It’d be great to have the “warned sign,” it’d “calm” some and sounds like it’d save the staff from a lot of work.

We can do what I've just done with your post to show that it has been warned for extreme cases, so I'll see how effective it is. 

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AbeHicks

You all should also crack down on homophobia which many users very clearly get away with on the daily on here but of course no one cares about that one.

ufyo2o9.gif

 

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Pendulum

I hope that includes the F-word masked as 'f-words' 

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Anvarie
Posted (edited)

I’m confused by a comment I saw from a mod in here. It’s now warnable if you go around the censor??? For example b*tch, f*g, h*e, c*nt would result in warning points?

Edited by Anvarie

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Bloo
2 minutes ago, Anvarie said:

I’m confused by a comment I saw from a mod in here. It’s now warnable if you go around the censor??? For example b*tch, f*g, h*e, c*nt would result in warning points?

This has been a long-standing rule. In most cases, people "dodge" the censor by censoring their own profanity and that's not really an issue. But doing simple tricks so that you can drop a functionally uncensored f-bomb can be met with a WP, yes.

Quote

Disruptive Content
All comments must stay on the thread’s topic. Do not post comments with the intent of derailing the thread into off-topic conversation or out of control arguments. Thread titles must not contain misleading descriptions of the thread’s content, capitalized words for the sole purpose of hyping the thread or all caps formatting. Fake news articles must be marked as such in the thread title. ATRL prohibits the use of nicknames when referring to public figures, brands or other users. For more information on this, see the nicknames warning. Intentionally fooling the profanity censor is also prohibited.

 

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CakeLikeLG

thank you ATRL :clap3:

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Oxygen
4 minutes ago, Anvarie said:

I’m confused by a comment I saw from a mod in here. It’s now warnable if you go around the censor??? For example b*tch, f*g, h*e, c*nt would result in warning points?

To follow on from Bloo's comment above, I was more referring to people using symbols and numbers and like "b!tch" and "h0e" and was more focused on reclaimed slurs that are overtly offensive out of certain contexts :smile: 

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Anvarie
7 minutes ago, Bloo said:

This has been a long-standing rule. In most cases, people "dodge" the censor by censoring their own profanity and that's not really an issue. But doing simple tricks so that you can drop a functionally uncensored f-bomb can be met with a WP, yes.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

To follow on from Bloo's comment above, I was more referring to people using symbols and numbers and like "b!tch" and "h0e" and was more focused on reclaimed slurs that are overtly offensive out of certain contexts :smile: 

Honestly it’s hard to keep track of the rules changing cause I explicitly remember a mod saying it was okay to do that. I’m not too worried since I barely post here anymore and stick to reading but still :cm:

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KillingYourCareer
3 hours ago, Relampago. said:

Does that include calling undocumented people “illegals” cause I’ve seen that a couple times 

 

3 hours ago, Oxygen said:

Yes.

Okay I had no idea about this because the main Italian-English online dictionary literally reports the translation of "clandestino" (non-offensive term for undocumented immigrants) as "illegal immigrant" here. There should be some guideline to help non-native English speakers avoid words we have no idea can be offensive :psyduck: 

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Oxygen
5 minutes ago, KillingYourCareer said:

 

Okay I had no idea about this because the main Italian-English online dictionary literally reports the translation of "clandestino" (non-offensive term for undocumented immigrants) as "illegal immigrant" here. There should be some guideline to help non-native English speakers avoid words we have no idea can be offensive :psyduck: 

It is usually clear when someone is not meaning to be offensive (either due to a poor translation as an example) and takes responsibility when someone points it out, compared to someone who doubles down on it. We are more concerned with the members who do the latter. 

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KillingYourCareer
Just now, Oxygen said:

It is usually clear when someone is not meaning to be offensive (either due to a poor translation as an example) and takes responsibility when someone points it out, compared to someone who doubles down on it. We are more concerned with the members who do the latter. 

If members using the wrong words in good faith are given the chance to learn the better term, it's better for everyone! I learned something new today!

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