charts discussion Should Billboard Move Toward a Revenue Chart???

[frenchyisback]

Yesterday, RIAA release a report showing that steaming was now 51% of recording revenues.

It supports Chance the Rapper's complaints that it takes 1,500 stream for 1 album equivalent when most album bought do not even get 1,500 listens.

 

Advantages:

1. It would also pre-empt tactics like discounts from misrepresenting a song's popularity.
2. It would make irrelevant the streaming vs pure sale debate.

 

It works for the Boxoffice.

It works in Germany.

 

Should billboard take the jump?

[iHype.]

No. Revenue and popularity are two different things.

[Tsareena]

It'll be nice to also have a revenue chart vs. the hot 100 but the hot 100 should be based solely on popularity. The ratio of streams to purchases can be adjusted to as streaming gets more valuable though

[frenchyisback]

But, if something is popular, shouldn't it pull revenue?

Airplay, stream & sales all generate revenues.

[Adonis]

6 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

But, if something is popular, shouldn't it pull revenue?

Airplay, stream & sales all generate revenues.

Not necessarily. Airplay is not end users making the decisions. Sales and Streams are end users deciding what they want. Songs like LOTB likely never would've hit the Top 10 if it wasn't for airplay because it's sales and streams were really low for a Top 5 hit.

[infrared]

no because people aren't looking at music charts to see how much revenue they're making. They're just looking at what's hot in the general scheme of things. I don't care if a song is 69c or 1.29, if people are eating it up, it'll be reflected in the charts.

 

[fridayteenage]

12 minutes ago, infrared said:

no because people aren't looking at music charts to see how much revenue they're making. They're just looking at what's hot in the general scheme of things. I don't care if a song is 69c or 1.29, if people are eating it up, it'll be reflected in the charts.

 

Most people aren't looking at music charts at all...

[VOSS]

No, the charts are meant to measure popularity

[fridayteenage]

Just now, Johnny said:

Billboard has 15.2 million unique visitors per month, more people check for these things (even if just those summaries or chart news) than you think ;) 

15.2 mil is not most people, now is it? 

[alexanderao]

30 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

But, if something is popular, shouldn't it pull revenue?

Airplay, stream & sales all generate revenues.

Of course. All popular songs pull in lots of revenue. That doesn't mean that revenue is the same thing as popularity. 

 

 

[Trent W]

Idk ? 

 

If we get rid of airplay the hot 100 would be 100% legit.  I think streams and sales should be the only factors to decide if a song is popular, airplay is just corporate, elitist and extremely unfair for artists.

[alexanderao]

1 minute ago, Trent W said:

Idk ? 

 

If we get rid of airplay the hot 100 would be 100% legit.  I think streams and sales should be the only factors to decide if a song is popular, airplay is just corporate, elitist and extremely unfair for artists.

No, it would be way less accurate without airplay included. Tens of millions of people consume music through radio every day, and ignoring that is quite unwise.

[Trent W]

Just now, alexanderao said:

No, it would be way less accurate without airplay included. Tens of millions of people consume music through radio every day, and ignoring that is quite unwise.

Consume? You mean promote?

 

The fact that radio only plays what the labels pay them to play shows how unfair the game really is, if radio wasn't handled the corporate way they would have a completely diverse playlist than playing the same track 15 times during the same day.

 

The Hot 100 is very easy to manipulate, until they get completely rid of airplay it will be seen as a legit chart.

 

 

[alexanderao]

Just now, Trent W said:

Consume? You mean promote?

 

The fact that radio only plays what the labels pay them to play shows how unfair the game really is, if radio wasn't handled the corporate way they would have a completely diverse playlist than playing the same track 15 times during the same day.

 

The Hot 100 is very easy to manipulate, until they get completely rid of airplay it will be seen as a legit chart.

 

 

The Hot 100 is the industry standard and has been for six decades. Its legitimacy is incontrovertible.  

 

Your statement that radio only plays what labels dictate them to play is patently inaccurate (if it were not, stations would not conduct callout surveys every week, and everyone with an On The Verge deal would land an automatic smash). Even if it were not, though, consumption is still consumption. What matters is not the process by which programming directors choose which songs to play, but rather which songs are being consumed and by how many people.

[Trent W]

Just now, alexanderao said:

The Hot 100 is the industry standard and has been for six decades. Its legitimacy is incontrovertible.  

 

Your statement that radio only plays what labels dictate them to play is patently inaccurate (if it were not, stations would not conduct callout surveys every week, and everyone with an On The Verge deal would land an automatic smash). Even if it were not, though, consumption is still consumption. What matters is not the process by which programming directors choose which songs to play, but rather which songs are being consumed and by how many people.

 

I agree that radio was important from the early 00s and backwards, back when there was nothing else, but it isn't anymore. Streaming and sales are 100% more important, the way music is consumed hs completely changed. 

 

It seems to me that airplay only counts towards the charts so the corporate major labels still have some control over what's popular, but this will end soon anyway.

 

 

[Enoch]

Nope 

No

Nada

[Dingdong123]

No

[shelven]

On 2017-03-31 at 3:31 PM, Trent W said:

I agree that radio was important from the early 00s and backwards, back when there was nothing else, but it isn't anymore. Streaming and sales are 100% more important, the way music is consumed hs completely changed. 

And yet in recent surveys conducted AFTER streaming exploded in popularity, it was found that a majority of people still use radio as their primary way of discovering new music.

 

I find that whenever ATRL discusses airplay's legitimacy in the Hot 100, the anti-radio people have this bias where they assume that teenage and young adult habits represent the entire population. Yes, it's probably true that among those age groups, streaming and sales account for way more music consumption than radio. But for everybody else, radio is still heavily used as a main source of listening to music. So removing airplay from the Hot 100 would effectively turn it into a popularity chart for teens and young adults as opposed to a popularity chart for everybody (which is what it is and should be).

[Unbreakable Heaven]

20 hours ago, shelven said:

And yet in recent surveys conducted AFTER streaming exploded in popularity, it was found that a majority of people still use radio as their primary way of discovering new music.

 

I find that whenever ATRL discusses airplay's legitimacy in the Hot 100, the anti-radio people have this bias where they assume that teenage and young adult habits represent the entire population. Yes, it's probably true that among those age groups, streaming and sales account for way more music consumption than radio. But for everybody else, radio is still heavily used as a main source of listening to music. So removing airplay from the Hot 100 would effectively turn it into a popularity chart for teens and young adults as opposed to a popularity chart for everybody (which is what it is and should be).

 

[sadnews]

the chart is already for teens and young adult tho. 18~34 is the demo of entertainment.

it's also the main demo and key of radio ad and revenue.

but you're right on that first part. radio is still the big thing and radio drive sales and streaming too.

we see all the time that singles get into top100 itunes from out of 1500 because of radio plays.

 

I don't see big deal over chart being revenue, as there won't be big changes.

I mean popularity and its revenue is connected. and whole SEA, SET thing is about revenue. so why not?

I really love to see revenue chart for single/album.

I hope billboard make new chart for it but they won't because it's very difficult to make them.

[Temporal]

On 3/31/2017 at 1:26 PM, iHype. said:

 

No. Revenue and popularity are two different things.

 

 

!

 

I think a Revenue Chart would be a good idea as a separate entity though.

[erianoillim]

On 2017-03-31 at 2:17 PM, frenchyisback said:

most album bought do not even get 1,500 listens.

Yeah but once you go past that number you get more sales equivalent whereasan album is just that--one unit sale no matter how many times it got played

[Adonis]

On 3/31/2017 at 2:26 PM, iHype. said:

 

No. Revenue and popularity are two different things.

 

Actually, they are directly related. There is no situation where a song can be popular and no generate any revenue.

[iHype.]

5 minutes ago, Adonis said:

Actually, they are directly related. There is no situation where a song can be popular and no generate any revenue.

They aren't. In the early 2000s songs went #1 with 100% airplay and 0% sales, lots of times while the album wasn't out yet. Yeah!, and Hot in Herre are examples of songs that reached #1 solely on airplay prior to the album release.

Would you argue they weren't #1 hits or nowhere the most popular hits in the country because weren't creating revenue in US the weeks they were atop the charts?

[Adonis]

Just now, iHype. said:

 

They aren't. In the early 2000s songs went #1 with 100% airplay and 0% sales (lots of times while the album wasn't out yet). Crazy in Love, Yeah!, and Hot in Herre are examples of songs that reached #1 solely on airplay prior to the album release.

 

Would you argue they weren't #1 hits or nowhere near top of the chart hits because the artist wasn't making money from the songs in US the weeks they were atop the charts?

 

This isn't 2000 anymore. The way record companies has changed and will continue to change. The HOT 100 in particular needs to reflect this. Sure airplay and sustained tv airtime will always increase the longevity of records. However, these items shouldn't necessarily count as revenue. These items are promotional tools to get people to part with their revenue.