Reinvention

The Last of Us Part II

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Legendairy
12 hours ago, Lucid Dreaming said:
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I didn't expect Abby and Owen's sex scene to be *that* explicit, it made me kinda awkward:deadbanana4:

So far i'm enjoying SO much the game. I love how the infected seem to be much more involved in the second part of the story than the first time.

I want to play as Ellie soon though, i want my bow and arrow back!

 

 

Judging from this post date, I’m assuming you got somethig better than a bow and arrow. :gaycat4:
 

Spoiler

I’m shook at this part tbh, they even modeled Owen’s armpit hair, it’s crazy. They went in. 


 

ot

RECAP from last week, I just got home from the city. 


~

I lost it when 

Spoiler

Yara died

I really like her character how open minded she is. She was so cool

 

The Island

Spoiler

I had to use stealth for the Scars, they got super strong


HOLY SCHIT PTSD

Spoiler

Ellie has ptsd flashbacks, fucck that’s rough, this game can’t get ang darker


So glad 

Spoiler

Dina’s alive, DINA IS MY MAIN BITCH, I love this PUTA. I WAS NOT HAVING IT WHEN ABBY WAS ABOUT SLIT HER THROAT. JESUS SAVE THIS GIRL.

 

is their baby named Jesse Joel?

 

and Tommy too, but completely bruised as hell


 

Spoiler

I was having a hard time sneaking Ellie, for crying out loud you can’t blame me for chasing her head on. Abby’s got huge arms, gotta put those bad girls to use. Only to find out I do have to sneak her or use a bottle, i learned about the latter so late, I just wanna attack Ellie.


My friend says I have 3 hours left. HERE WE GO. 

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Legendairy

Finished the game holy ****. It is exactly what I expetected to be, they really did that. 
 

I commend ND’s bravery tbh. 

 

What hit me the most is Dina

Spoiler

Leaving

That one was hard to swallow. I could deal the risky finale but Dina and 

Spoiler

JJ leaving? That takes it to a whole level of emptiness. 


I feel like the game would have faired better if it didn’t leak. It’s no Got s8 where regardless if it leaked, it’s still a ****ty season. TLOUII, is amazing leak or no leak, the insane hate is there but what are you gonna do if you’re at the top? 
 

Can’t wait for Part III in like 9 years after, the road to PS7. 

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Legendairy
Posted (edited)

I could see myself playing this again, I didn’t bother doing New Game+ in part 1, but because of how stellar the gameplay is and the level design not to mention how flexible Ellie/Abby is, it’d be fun to have another playthrough. 
 

edit

oh right there’s the multiplayer too

Edited by Legendairy

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Ichinaru19
3 hours ago, Legendairy said:

Finished the game holy ****. It is exactly what I expetected to be, they really did that. 
 

I commend ND’s bravery tbh. 

 

What hit me the most is Dina

  Hide contents

Leaving

That one was hard to swallow. I could deal the risky finale but Dina and 

  Reveal hidden contents

JJ leaving? That takes it to a whole level of emptiness. 


I feel like the game would have faired better if it didn’t leak. It’s no Got s8 where regardless if it leaked, it’s still a ****ty season. TLOUII, is amazing leak or no leak, the insane hate is there but what are you gonna do if you’re at the top? 
 

Can’t wait for Part III in like 9 years after, the road to PS7. 

I'm glad

Dina left.  We don't need a "damsel in distress", Ellie made her decision and that's that on that

 

3 hours ago, Legendairy said:

I could see myself playing this again, I didn’t bother doing New Game+ in part 1, but because of how stellar the gameplay is and the level design not to mention how flexible Ellie/Abby is, it’d be fun to have another playthrough. 
 

edit

oh right there’s the multiplayer too

I can totally see my self replaying this game too, maybe I'll replay the first one and follow up with the second one again at some point. Also do you know whats going on with the multiplayer aspect? I heard they weren't going to do it at first

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Lucid Dreaming
11 hours ago, Legendairy said:

Judging from this post date, I’m assuming you got somethig better than a bow and arrow. :gaycat4:
 

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I’m shook at this part tbh, they even modeled Owen’s armpit hair, it’s crazy. They went in. 

 

Spoiler

Bow and arrow >>>> crossbow (i personally think i have a better aim with the former than the latter lmao)

 

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Lucid Dreaming

I'm re-playing TLOU and i didn't know that enemies ALSO surrended back then:swan: i swear i played twice that game and it NEVER happened to me (unless i don't remember it haha). I thought it was a new feature (happened to me a few times now) but i guess not.

I also have a conspiracy theory regarding some notes but i'll say it once i finish the second game:coffee2:

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D_Man3379

Omg :rip: 

 

EdwEQ6GUEAMv3eY?format=jpg&name=large

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Marco23

Did they release a sales update?

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Lucid Dreaming
Spoiler
Spoiler

I heard that the game was 30hs long and i thought 'yeah sure, i'm 20hs in and Ellie v Abby's showdown already happened'...but i was wrong:deadbanana4:

I must say that the gameplay is INSANE. One of the best PS4 games in that regard. And it's also hella long.

Oh, and Abby's 3 Seattle Days >>> Ellie's

 

 

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FailSafe

 

Spoiler

I'm playing Abby right now and I really don't like her even with the flashbacks.

 

Spoiler

She said to Joel "guess" like she is super important, girl your dad is an NPC :bibliahh::skull:

 

 

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CosTaSsSs

Abby is as amazing as Ellie, I loved both while playing the game. Her actions are justified. Wish there are more games who will not copy, but be inspired about this "risk". 

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Lucid Dreaming

I just finished the game.

I'm going to do a full 'rant' or overview tomorrow (i need to collect my thoughts).

All i'm going to say that the game was definitely something i didn't expect.

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Lucid Dreaming
Spoiler
Spoiler

So i'm going to start with the good stuff:

The gameplay is INCREDIBLE. I love how stealth works in this game (although it can get a little tideous at times), the combat is top notch, i especially love how melee combat works in this game. The silencer was a really good addition as well. What i loved the most is how the enemies reacted when they found out one of them was dead or how they saw one of them dying, i thought it was a really good touch.

Now onto the parts i have mixed feelings about.

One thing that i have to say is that the infected were in second place in the story, opposed from the first game (where they were the main enemies), it felt like a whole game in a sense.

 

The Characters: For the most part, the new characters were okay, i liked Dina, Jesse, Lev, Yara and...Abby (yeah, i said it.mp3). I thought they played a nice role in the storyline; really didn't care about the rest of Abby's WLF partners. I especially disliked Owen, a lot.

Sans that, Tommy, Joel (RIP legend) and Ellie were still great as they were. Although i definitely think Ellie lost me at some points of the plot.

All of them are complex characters, in the grand scheme of thinks (and with a whole game behind this), you can pick out who are the bad guys and the good guys, but really, they all share similar traits if you will. I don't think Abby is the 'bad guy' and i don't think Ellie is neccessarly the ''good guy' in the game; hell, even Joel was in a grey area of being a bad and good guy in the OG game.

I liked the relationship of Abby and his father, and if Naughty Dog had expanded upon that storyline, i think people in general would have liked Abby more, but i guess we got that relationship in the form of Abby and Lev relationship, which i adored. I love how Naughty Dog is not afraid to cover the entire LGBTQ+ spectrum and piss their fanbase lol. I think the scars were the best enemies of the game: they were ruthless, they were hard to beat, they had those big ass giants and the story was SO good on that part. I loved the whole cult aspect and i kinda want an entire spin-off with a complete Scars storyline.

 

Now onto the most controversial part:

The Story: Now i'm going to say something, i'm OK with the idea of Joel being dead, i DETESTED, however, the way he was killed. And so early in the game. Naughty Dog, in my opinion, executed his death in the worst way possible, you couldn't even fight a little. At least gives us some hope.

I think Abby should have killed Tommy instead (with the excuse of 'you killed someone i loved, now it's my turn' or something like that) and leave Joel alive and wounded, and the story going after it, going after revenge in the name of Tommy. And we would also have some gameplay with the duo. Killing game that way, without remorse...idk man. I didn't like it. In part i wanted to still go on with the game because the gameplay was AMAZING and i really wanted revenge, but in the other part, the death of him was SO the way it shouldn't have been.

At first i didn't really like the idea of re-playing the 3 Seattle days with Abby (i thought it was going to be stupid and an excuse to make the game longer), but i actually really enjoyed it, especially after the Yara/Lev encounter. This is also the part of the game that was really action packed, which i did enjoy. One thing i will say though, ND really did try to make Ellie dirty in the game, like a lot dirty. When we had to fight against her in the theater was a nightmare lmao.

 

Lastly, the ending: No. Just no. We went through all that sh*t, almost dying in the desert, just to NOT have revenge? What was the point of the resort gameplay then? The game could have ended in a great way with Ellie and Dina's epilogue and that's it.

The ending does leave the page open for a Abby/Lev sequel (doubt the fanbase would buy it lmao, but i would) but it left me very unsatisfied.

 

I will definetly re-play the game though, but i must say that the story went through places i didn't expect and i can't say i'm a huge fan about.

My final rating would be a 7/10.

 

 

 

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feuxtography
On 8/7/2020 at 8:56 AM, Lucid Dreaming said:
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So i'm going to start with the good stuff:

The gameplay is INCREDIBLE. I love how stealth works in this game (although it can get a little tideous at times), the combat is top notch, i especially love how melee combat works in this game. The silencer was a really good addition as well. What i loved the most is how the enemies reacted when they found out one of them was dead or how they saw one of them dying, i thought it was a really good touch.

Now onto the parts i have mixed feelings about.

One thing that i have to say is that the infected were in second place in the story, opposed from the first game (where they were the main enemies), it felt like a whole game in a sense.

 

The Characters: For the most part, the new characters were okay, i liked Dina, Jesse, Lev, Yara and...Abby (yeah, i said it.mp3). I thought they played a nice role in the storyline; really didn't care about the rest of Abby's WLF partners. I especially disliked Owen, a lot.

Sans that, Tommy, Joel (RIP legend) and Ellie were still great as they were. Although i definitely think Ellie lost me at some points of the plot.

All of them are complex characters, in the grand scheme of thinks (and with a whole game behind this), you can pick out who are the bad guys and the good guys, but really, they all share similar traits if you will. I don't think Abby is the 'bad guy' and i don't think Ellie is neccessarly the ''good guy' in the game; hell, even Joel was in a grey area of being a bad and good guy in the OG game.

I liked the relationship of Abby and his father, and if Naughty Dog had expanded upon that storyline, i think people in general would have liked Abby more, but i guess we got that relationship in the form of Abby and Lev relationship, which i adored. I love how Naughty Dog is not afraid to cover the entire LGBTQ+ spectrum and piss their fanbase lol. I think the scars were the best enemies of the game: they were ruthless, they were hard to beat, they had those big ass giants and the story was SO good on that part. I loved the whole cult aspect and i kinda want an entire spin-off with a complete Scars storyline.

 

Now onto the most controversial part:

The Story: Now i'm going to say something, i'm OK with the idea of Joel being dead, i DETESTED, however, the way he was killed. And so early in the game. Naughty Dog, in my opinion, executed his death in the worst way possible, you couldn't even fight a little. At least gives us some hope.

I think Abby should have killed Tommy instead (with the excuse of 'you killed someone i loved, now it's my turn' or something like that) and leave Joel alive and wounded, and the story going after it, going after revenge in the name of Tommy. And we would also have some gameplay with the duo. Killing game that way, without remorse...idk man. I didn't like it. In part i wanted to still go on with the game because the gameplay was AMAZING and i really wanted revenge, but in the other part, the death of him was SO the way it shouldn't have been.

At first i didn't really like the idea of re-playing the 3 Seattle days with Abby (i thought it was going to be stupid and an excuse to make the game longer), but i actually really enjoyed it, especially after the Yara/Lev encounter. This is also the part of the game that was really action packed, which i did enjoy. One thing i will say though, ND really did try to make Ellie dirty in the game, like a lot dirty. When we had to fight against her in the theater was a nightmare lmao.

 

Lastly, the ending: No. Just no. We went through all that sh*t, almost dying in the desert, just to NOT have revenge? What was the point of the resort gameplay then? The game could have ended in a great way with Ellie and Dina's epilogue and that's it.

The ending does leave the page open for a Abby/Lev sequel (doubt the fanbase would buy it lmao, but i would) but it left me very unsatisfied.

 

I will definetly re-play the game though, but i must say that the story went through places i didn't expect and i can't say i'm a huge fan about.

My final rating would be a 7/10.

 

 

 

Spoiler

"Lastly, the ending: No. Just no. We went through all that sh*t, almost dying in the desert, just to NOT have revenge? "

 

Girl, that ending literally flew right over your head :deadbanana2: Like, they even made it extremely clear that Ellie letting Abby go was Ellies way of forgiving Joel. 

 

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feuxtography

just finished. ksalfj what an IMPACT, this game is truly a work of art in story telling.

 

im so glad i avoided all spoilers and had no idea what to expect. the only thing i knew about it was that it was "extremely SJW" but like....i didn't even think it was. I kept expecting abby to come out as trans or something. :rip:

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FailSafe
1 hour ago, feuxtography said:
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"Lastly, the ending: No. Just no. We went through all that sh*t, almost dying in the desert, just to NOT have revenge? "

 

Girl, that ending literally flew right over your head :deadbanana2: Like, they even made it extremely clear that Ellie letting Abby go was Ellies way of forgiving Joel. 

 

Spoiler

I agree with @Lucid Dreamingthe ending was a MASSIVE let down and here's why:

 

At first like Ellie, we (the players) is hell bent on killing Abby, that's what I felt when I played Ellie's 3-day Seattle story. And after that we switched to Abby to understand her perspective. And yes, if you saw my post here, I didn't like Abby but that bitch GREW on me. We the players (again), saw her struggles, her reasons, her pain of losing her loved ones (her father AND her friends), frankly, Abby had it bad just like Ellie. But that is exactly why the ending doesn't make sense. We, as Ellie, might let go of Abby, BUT Ellie herself is unaware of Abby's history. Strictly to Ellie POV, Abby was the one who killed the most important person for her, she handicapped Tommy (another important person in Ellie's life) , killed her other friend (Jessie) , on top of willingly tried to kill her pregnant girlfriend (Ellie: she's pregnant! Abby: good :deadbanana4:). Abby is a psychopath to Ellie's eyes, she didn't get to see her struggles, her positive side (Abby willing to sacrifice everything for Yara and Lev). Ellie's impression of Abby starts and ends with her as a ruthless killing-machine so Ellie letting go of Abby doesn't make an ounce of sense. She didn't get to see her human side. We players did.

 

Ellie should've killed Abby. It doesn't make sense in her perspective, whether it is about forgiving Joel or not.

 

Edited by FailSafe

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feuxtography
16 hours ago, FailSafe said:
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I agree with @Lucid Dreamingthe ending was a MASSIVE let down and here's why:

 

At first like Ellie, we (the players) is hell bent on killing Abby, that's what I felt when I played Ellie's 3-day Seattle story. And after that we switched to Abby to understand her perspective. And yes, if you saw my post here, I didn't like Abby but that bitch GREW on me. We the players (again), saw her struggles, her reasons, her pain of losing her loved ones (her father AND her friends), frankly, Abby had it bad just like Ellie. But that is exactly why the ending doesn't make sense. We, as Ellie, might let go of Abby, BUT Ellie herself is unaware of Abby's history. Strictly to Ellie POV, Abby was the one who killed the most important person for her, she handicapped Tommy (another important person in Ellie's life) , killed her other friend (Jessie) , on top of willingly tried to kill her pregnant girlfriend (Ellie: she's pregnant! Abby: good :deadbanana4:). Abby is a psychopath to Ellie's eyes, she didn't get to see her struggles, her positive side (Abby willing to sacrifice everything for Yara and Lev). Ellie's impression of Abby starts and ends with her as a ruthless killing-machine so Ellie letting go of Abby doesn't make an ounce of sense. She didn't get to see her human side. We players did.

 

Ellie should've killed Abby. It doesn't make sense in her perspective, whether it is about forgiving Joel or not.

 

Spoiler

I cant help but completely disagree!

 

When looking at the game as a whole, Naughty Dog is telling a story of forgiveness. Revenge propels the plot forward, but forgiveness is the story being told. And they make it really obvious multiple times through the game. Even when it isn't so obvious, when Naughty Dog PLAYS the PLAYER into having to forgive Abby. We all hated her, we all didn't want to play her, and I get thats where it gets divisive at the end of Seattle day 3. There's a difference between the people who forgave Abby and empathize/understand her life/story, and the people who still wanted her dead in the end.

 

Also, I completely disagree that it doesn't make sense for Ellie to forgive her from her perspective.  The dual pregnancy plot point makes it pretty obvious that ellie understands the parallel, the hypocrisy, and the similarities of their lives. Also, abby shows compassion/mercy for Ellie three times to her face throughout the game. It all then hinges on Ellies final actions towards Abby, which her decision is instantly reflected in the flashback of her and Joel. In their conversation, she tells Joel what he did was so bad she could never forgive him, but she'd like to try. She is actively applying this to Abby, what Abby did was so bad she could never forgive her. But she does. Hence giving her the resolve she has been fighting for throughout the whole game. 

 

 

 

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feuxtography
On 7/17/2020 at 8:23 AM, MingYouToo said:

FINISHED THIS.

 

AMAZING. 

 

SPOILER but

Spoiler

the joel death scene wouldve probably made more impact if it was shown 3/4ths into the game and the first half was full on just abby and her adventures.

 

they shouldve marketed this as a different story arc entirely tbh, makes ellie's revenge arc near the end more satisfying.

Spoiler

I disagree, if you had that much time with Abby before Joels death it wouldn't have had the same personal impact of switching to Abby as the player. They wanted you to hate her. They wanted you to look at her as a hardened murderer. Thats part of the impact of her section of the story, you as a player are challenged with forgiving her as you play through her story, so that by the end, the whole final sequence of her and ellie fighting is emotionally taxing. You wouldn't have had that same effect, because you would have already started to sympathize with Abby. 

 

I think it comes down to accepting and realizing this story was never about Joel. Its ultimately Ellies personal redemption, as the first game was Joels personal redemption. 

 

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FailSafe
1 hour ago, feuxtography said:
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I cant help but completely disagree!

 

When looking at the game as a whole, Naughty Dog is telling a story of forgiveness. Revenge propels the plot forward, but forgiveness is the story being told. And they make it really obvious multiple times through the game. Even when it isn't so obvious, when Naughty Dog PLAYS the PLAYER into having to forgive Abby. We all hated her, we all didn't want to play her, and I get thats where it gets divisive at the end of Seattle day 3. There's a difference between the people who forgave Abby and empathize/understand her life/story, and the people who still wanted her dead in the end.

 

Also, I completely disagree that it doesn't make sense for Ellie to forgive her from her perspective.  The dual pregnancy plot point makes it pretty obvious that ellie understands the parallel, the hypocrisy, and the similarities of their lives. Also, abby shows compassion/mercy for Ellie three times to her face throughout the game. It all then hinges on Ellies final actions towards Abby, which her decision is instantly reflected in the flashback of her and Joel. In their conversation, she tells Joel what he did was so bad she could never forgive him, but she'd like to try. She is actively applying this to Abby, what Abby did was so bad she could never forgive her. But she does. Hence giving her the resolve she has been fighting for throughout the whole game. 

 

 

 

Spoiler

It's interesting that we have different opinion on the game, and I don't mean it in a negative way.

 

Abby brutalized and tortured Joel, Tommy most likely told her about it, Abby stole her chance of forgiving Joel and yes I completely agree that the game is not just about revenge.

 

The game's story telling of forgiving would be much effective if they changed Joel's death instead of pulling a Negan to us (obviously ND but specifically Neil "did I subvert ur expectation 😜" Druckkman) for the shock value. ND could've create a scenario where Abby and Joel worked together for a longer period of time, Abby and Joel "bonding together" to which Abby realized that Joel is not a complete murderer devoid of emotions and then his death scene could've been like, Joel assisted her to escape a swarm of infected but just as Joel asked her to pull him up, she hesitated and Ultimately didn't help him, causing Joel to get bit. Ellie could've witness this and Ellie could then "forgive" Abby because, while Abby could've helped Joel, she still indirectly caused his death. This will give Ellie the confusion if killing Abby is worth it, especially when Abby could've told her about her dad's death and why she chose to feed Joel to the infected, instead of just brutally torturing Joel like what happened canonically.

 

Also, I highly DOUBT Ellie forgives Abby in any sort of way, she forgave Joel, she accepted the fact that Joel will never come back but that didn't mean she forgave Abby.

 

Forgiving and letting go of Abby would only make sense if, Ellie knew about her story and if a similar situation like what I've posted above happened. Joel saved Abby from the infected, he showed nothing but compassion to her yet she still clubbered him to death without even asking why he did what he did. Joel didn't know Abby's history, Abby didn't know Joel's history, Ellie didn't know Abby's history, Abby didn't know Ellie's history. We players do.

 

The story-telling could've been one of the most memorable in any type of medium, but ND shot themselves in the foot by choosing shock value instead.

 

 

 

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feuxtography
44 minutes ago, FailSafe said:
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It's interesting that we have different opinion on the game, and I don't mean it in a negative way.

 

Abby brutalized and tortured Joel, Tommy most likely told her about it, Abby stole her chance of forgiving Joel and yes I completely agree that the game is not just about revenge.

 

The game's story telling of forgiving would be much effective if they changed Joel's death instead of pulling a Negan to us (obviously ND but specifically Neil "did I subvert ur expectation 😜" Druckkman) for the shock value. ND could've create a scenario where Abby and Joel worked together for a longer period of time, Abby and Joel "bonding together" to which Abby realized that Joel is not a complete murderer devoid of emotions and then his death scene could've been like, Joel assisted her to escape a swarm of infected but just as Joel asked her to pull him up, she hesitated and Ultimately didn't help him, causing Joel to get bit. Ellie could've witness this and Ellie could then "forgive" Abby because, while Abby could've helped Joel, she still indirectly caused his death. This will give Ellie the confusion if killing Abby is worth it, especially when Abby could've told her about her dad's death and why she chose to feed Joel to the infected, instead of just brutally torturing Joel like what happened canonically.

 

Also, I highly DOUBT Ellie forgives Abby in any sort of way, she forgave Joel, she accepted the fact that Joel will never come back but that didn't mean she forgave Abby.

 

Forgiving and letting go of Abby would only make sense if, Ellie knew about her story and if a similar situation like what I've posted above happened. Joel saved Abby from the infected, he showed nothing but compassion to her yet she still clubbered him to death without even asking why he did what he did. Joel didn't know Abby's history, Abby didn't know Joel's history, Ellie didn't know Abby's history, Abby didn't know Ellie's history. We players do.

 

The story-telling could've been one of the most memorable in any type of medium, but ND shot themselves in the foot by choosing shock value instead.

 

 

 

Spoiler

We'll definitely just have to disagree on that point then! You just want a different game, as you came up with an entirely new plot, something you wanted to see instead.

 

 I dont interpret any of ND's story telling to how you did. I feel like they gave every tool the player needed to see what this game was trying to say and how all characters behavior enriches the theme of the game. The symbolism was hammered into you at every turn, even in the literal last seconds with Ellies fingers and the guitar. 

 

Yes, its not necessarily "Ellie forgave abby," abby has no place in Ellies life, I meant more-so the act of her letting abby go in that moment was her personal resolve into forgiving Joel. Ellie isn't pushed through the story simply out of blind rage, a huge part of why she's so hellbent on losing everything to track down abby is because of how incomplete and unable to accept their relationship before he died. How she was at odds with not forgiving him for not giving her life meaning, but also, his actions allowed her to pursue a life of meaning. Ellies own personal selfishness in both how she treats Joel, and how she treats her hatred for abby, is finally resolved by letting her go. Joel fought so ellie would not end up like him, and could find a life where she could find meaning, and she finally realizes that at the end. Especially as in that scene, Joel says he would make the same decisions all over again. Ellie doesn't need to kill abby, and she accepts that.

 

And again, Ellie did not need to know every detail about Abby to come to this conclusion or to see humanity. Symbolism in the pregnancy parellel, Abby telling her she killed all her friends, Abby showing mercy on Ellie multiple times. These were all actions Ellie saw. Top this all with how in that final moment Ellie realizes the suffering she has over Joel has little to do with Abby and more to do with herself. Why kill her at that point (plus with a child in a boat who depends on her.) I genuinely cant see how other people cant see why Ellie let her go. It makes sense. It wasn't bad story telling. 

 

I dont know if you've watched this video yet, but this is one of the few reviewers who I had an identical experience with the game. I'm glad there are people who took the same experience out of it. It probably puts a lot of what I'm trying to say into better words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by feuxtography

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FailSafe
30 minutes ago, feuxtography said:
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We'll definitely just have to disagree on that point then! You just want a different game, as you came up with an entirely new plot, something you wanted to see instead.

 

 I dont interpret any of ND's story telling to how you did. I feel like they gave every tool the player needed to see what this game was trying to say and how all characters behavior enriches the theme of the game. The symbolism was hammered into you at every turn, even in the literal last seconds with Ellies fingers and the guitar. 

 

Yes, its not necessarily "Ellie forgave abby," abby has no place in Ellies life, I meant more-so the act of her letting abby go in that moment was her personal resolve into forgiving Joel. Ellie isn't pushed through the story simply out of blind rage, a huge part of why she's so hellbent on losing everything to track down abby is because of how incomplete and unable to accept their relationship before he died. How she was at odds with not forgiving him for not giving her life meaning, but also, his actions allowed her to pursue a life of meaning. Ellies own personal selfishness in both how she treats Joel, and how she treats her hatred for abby, is finally resolved by letting her go. Joel fought so ellie would not end up like him, and could find a life where she could find meaning, and she finally realizes that at the end. Especially as in that scene, Joel says he would make the same decisions all over again. Ellie doesn't need to kill abby, and she accepts that.

 

And again, Ellie did not need to know every detail about Abby to come to this conclusion or to see humanity. Symbolism in the pregnancy parellel, Abby telling her she killed all her friends, Abby showing mercy on Ellie multiple times. These were all actions Ellie saw. Top this all with how in that final moment Ellie realizes the suffering she has over Joel has little to do with Abby and more to do with herself. Why kill her at that point (plus with a child in a boat who depends on her.) I genuinely cant see how other people cant see why Ellie let her go. It makes sense. It wasn't bad story telling. 

 

I dont know if you've watched this video yet, but this is one of the few reviewers who I had an identical experience with the game. I'm glad there are people who took the same experience out of it. It probably puts a lot of what I'm trying to say into better words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

This story is about Ellie, and also her relationship with Joel. What Nora said to Ellie before she died, the way Manny disrespected Joel's body by spitting on it, Ellie had to have a reason to see them in different light to have a change of heart and see what Abby had gone through or at least a part of it in order for the whole "letting go of Abby" to be effective. Strictly to Ellie's POV, they are a bunch of people who decided to kill Joel out of nowhere. I said this and will say it again, ELLIE DIDN'T KNOW THEIR REASON ON WHY THEY KILL JOEL. Why would she spare someone's life just because of the guilt she was carrying let alone the main reason why she had such baggage? Ellie didn't even BOTHER to question Abby's motivation when she had the chance ffs!

 

Just because Abby decided to spare Ellie the second time (mind you, it was thanks to Lev, because Abby was about to slit Dina's throat), didn't mean that Ellie should just let her go away. What she personally felt about Joel should be entirely separated with what she felt to Abby. 

 

At the end of the day, Ellie didn't know a SINGLE thing about Abby, or any of her crew. Aside from them being responsible for Joel's death.

 

 

Again, letting go of Abby would only make sense if Abby gave her a single reason on why she should, because sparing her life surely would not cut it. And it wasn't only Joel that is close to Ellie that Abby killed.

 

"We could killed you"

"Maybe you should have"

 

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BNF91
16 hours ago, feuxtography said:
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We'll definitely just have to disagree on that point then! You just want a different game, as you came up with an entirely new plot, something you wanted to see instead.

 

 I dont interpret any of ND's story telling to how you did. I feel like they gave every tool the player needed to see what this game was trying to say and how all characters behavior enriches the theme of the game. The symbolism was hammered into you at every turn, even in the literal last seconds with Ellies fingers and the guitar. 

 

Yes, its not necessarily "Ellie forgave abby," abby has no place in Ellies life, I meant more-so the act of her letting abby go in that moment was her personal resolve into forgiving Joel. Ellie isn't pushed through the story simply out of blind rage, a huge part of why she's so hellbent on losing everything to track down abby is because of how incomplete and unable to accept their relationship before he died. How she was at odds with not forgiving him for not giving her life meaning, but also, his actions allowed her to pursue a life of meaning. Ellies own personal selfishness in both how she treats Joel, and how she treats her hatred for abby, is finally resolved by letting her go. Joel fought so ellie would not end up like him, and could find a life where she could find meaning, and she finally realizes that at the end. Especially as in that scene, Joel says he would make the same decisions all over again. Ellie doesn't need to kill abby, and she accepts that.

 

And again, Ellie did not need to know every detail about Abby to come to this conclusion or to see humanity. Symbolism in the pregnancy parellel, Abby telling her she killed all her friends, Abby showing mercy on Ellie multiple times. These were all actions Ellie saw. Top this all with how in that final moment Ellie realizes the suffering she has over Joel has little to do with Abby and more to do with herself. Why kill her at that point (plus with a child in a boat who depends on her.) I genuinely cant see how other people cant see why Ellie let her go. It makes sense. It wasn't bad story telling. 

 

I dont know if you've watched this video yet, but this is one of the few reviewers who I had an identical experience with the game. I'm glad there are people who took the same experience out of it. It probably puts a lot of what I'm trying to say into better words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

All of this. Totally agreed. Also, it's not accurate for the other poster to say Ellie knew nothing about the motives of Abby when:

1) Nora indirectly admitted to being affiliated with the Fireflies when Ellie was interrogating her, as well as loosely explaining why they killed him ("you're her", "think of what he did, how many people are dead because of him")

 

2) Dina questioned why the group only killed Joel and spared Tommy and Ellie, inserting that thought into Ellie's head as to why. 

 

3) In Ellie's Salt Lake City flashback, it is Abby speaking in the recording, which she probably kept and listened to again (she was already endlessly repeating it before Joel even showed up). It wouldn't be hard for her to recognize Abby's voice IRL once she heard it and put all the pieces together.

 

4) Which she did when Ellie literally said "I know why you killed Joel! He did what he did to save me!" as she stared Abby straight in the face.

 

Some people need to pay better attention i think.

 

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