charts discussion janet. not Diamond record but Daydream & Music Box are?

[ifeelitboy]

The following numbers are from Nielsen SoundScan, which began tracking data in 1991.

Daydream & Music sold a bit more than janet., but they were certified as Diamond records. It just seems odd to me.

 

Anyway, I love both ladies, but Sony was doing a better job than Virgin Records for certifications. Janet totally deserves at least one Diamond record (I think RN1814 might be one, too.)
**Edit** it turns out that to get certifications, you have to pay for it. I guess back then, Janet, Virgin & A&M don't care about it. They only care about the actual sales they know.

7,010,000, "janet." (1993)

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/267479/ask-billboard-life-after-discussing-divas

 

7,605,000, "Daydream" (1995)
7,271,000, "Music Box" (1993)

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/1555095/ask-billboard-belindas-back-jt-too-mariah-careys-album-sales

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by ifeelitboy

[BoyToySoldier]

Chartmasters has US estimates for RN and janet. at 8.1 and 8 million, respectively. His stats are based on reports such as IFPI.

 

Mariah on the other hand is and was just a bigger artist. Music Box is estimated at 10.6 while Daydream is at 10.2 million.

[ifeelitboy]

10 minutes ago, BoyToySoldier said:

Chartmasters has US estimates for RN and janet. at 8.1 and 8 million, respectively. His stats are based on reports such as IFPI.

 

Mariah on the other hand is and was just a bigger artist. Music Box is estimated at 10.6 while Daydream is at 10.2 million.

I would trust Billboard & soundscan more than Chartmasters. The pure sales number from Soundscan, the 3 albums sold pretty much the same, but only two got certified as Diamond from RIAA. 

[Miss Korea]

You answered your question/statement in your second paragraph. That's Virgin Records' fault.

[ifeelitboy]

2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

You answered your question/statement in your second paragraph. That's Virgin Records' fault.

**Edit** it turns out that to get certifications, you have to pay for it. I guess back then, Janet, Virgin & A&M don't care about it. They only care about the actual sales they know.

Edited May 25, 2018 by ifeelitboy

[BoyToySoldier]

6 minutes ago, ifeelitboy said:

I would trust Billboard & soundscan more than Chartmasters. The pure sales number from Soundscan, the 3 albums sold pretty much the same, but only two got certified as Diamond from RIAA. 

The RIAA does not use Soundscan, their certifications are based off tracking retail markets on the subject of both sales and shipments. Mariah’s albums definitely had more shipments than “janet.”.

[The7thStranger]

I see you've edited it. Yeah, labels sometimes just don't care about certifications because it's a lot of money for some bragging rights, and it's not worth it.

[Rev8]

1 hour ago, The7thStranger said:

I see you've edited it. Yeah, labels sometimes just don't care about certifications because it's a lot of money for some bragging rights, and it's not worth it.

is it really that much money tho..

[The7thStranger]

1 hour ago, Rev8 said:

is it really that much money tho..

It adds up. Think about how many certified albums Universal and Virgin and Sony and bla bla bla would have to pay for. Especially in today's climate where the industry is essentially being held together by hope and product placement.

 

Here are the RIAA requirements:

 

Quote

Certification Audit Requirements: 1. Copy of product (CD or digital). 2. Label Copy for all configurations. 3. Retail prices for all configurations (computer printout or catalog). Not required for video. 4. Product release date. 5. Internal sales summary report reflecting only domestic commercial sales (total invoiced) and sales to U.S. military post exchanges. The report must not include export sales or any promotional or free distributions. 6. In certain instances, we may request additional documentation including internal sales detail reports, sales invoices, royalty statements rendered to artists, manufacturing records and royalty statements rendered by the Digital Service Providers. 7. Club sales reports, if applicable (BMG Direct, Columbia House, other).

And I can tell you now that record keeping for this kind of thing is shoddy at best.

[Rev8]

15 minutes ago, The7thStranger said:

It adds up. Think about how many certified albums Universal and Virgin and Sony and bla bla bla would have to pay for. Especially in today's climate where the industry is essentially being held together by hope and product placement.

 

Here are the RIAA requirements:

 

And I can tell you now that record keeping for this kind of thing is shoddy at best.

haha yea..there is a lot of stuff to do

[Ghiles]

Billboard is just Soundscan sales. RIAA, the US certification body, includes sales from BMG music clubs and Columbia House. When you factor them in, the sales are:

 

Music Box - 10,600,000 - Diamond

Daydream - 10,200,000 - Diamond

Rhythm Nation 1814 - 8,100,000 - Not Diamond

janet. - 8,000,000 - Not Diamond

 

What's interesting is that Janet was actually bigger on BMG club sales than Mariah

https://web.archive.org/web/20150925173959/http://www.mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=47877

 

But Mariah was just utterly massive on Columbia House. Her albums were always featured in their ads and she was even present in their commercials.

 

Read more about this topic in detail here:

https://chartmasters.org/2016/10/understanding-music-clubs-part-2/5/

https://chartmasters.org/2016/10/understanding-music-clubs-album-sales/10/

 

So in short, Mariah's albums have earned their Diamond awards and aren't "over-certified" or "over-shipped". This only happens with albums that end up bombing after heavy first week shipments due to high expectations. And Janet's albums, although undercertified on RIAA, haven't sold enough to be Diamond.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Ghiles

[Flawfree]

Well duh. Mariah has alwaus been about ten billion times more popular than Janet has ever been.

[Green]

Mariah's albums sold more at Music Clubs. And Billboard/Soundscan doesn't track music club sales, but the RIAA counts them

[Stankonia]

2 minutes ago, Flawfree said:

Well duh. Mariah has alwaus been about ten billion times more popular than Janet has ever been.

Did you even read the op dummy

[Bloodflowers.]

8 minutes ago, Ghiles said:

Billboard is just Soundscan sales. RIAA, the US certification body, includes sales from BMG music clubs and Columbia House. When you factor them in, the sales are:

 

Music Box - 10,600,000 - Diamond

Daydream - 10,200,000 - Diamond

Rhythm Nation 1814 - 8,100,000 - Not Diamond

janet. - 8,000,000 - Not Diamond

 

What's interesting is that Janet was actually bigger on BMG club sales than Mariah

https://web.archive.org/web/20150925173959/http://www.mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=47877

 

But Mariah was just utterly massive on Columbia House. Her albums were always featured in their ads and she was even present in their commercials.

 

Read more about this topic in detail here:

https://chartmasters.org/2016/10/understanding-music-clubs-part-2/5/

https://chartmasters.org/2016/10/understanding-music-clubs-album-sales/10/

 

So in short, Mariah's albums have earned their Diamond awards and aren't "over-certified" or "over-shipped". This only happens with albums that end up bombing after heavy first week shipments due to high expectations. And Janet's albums, although undercertified on RIAA, haven't sold enough to be Diamond.

 

And that's the way facts go.

 

[slw84]

9 hours ago, ifeelitboy said:

The following numbers are from Nielsen SoundScan, which began tracking data in 1991.

Daydream & Music sold a bit more than janet., but they were certified as Diamond records. It just seems odd to me.

 

Anyway, I love both ladies, but Sony was doing a better job than Virgin Records for certifications. Janet totally deserves at least one Diamond record (I think RN1814 might be one, too.)
**Edit** it turns out that to get certifications, you have to pay for it. I guess back then, Janet, Virgin & A&M don't care about it. They only care about the actual sales they know.

7,010,000, "janet." (1993)

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/267479/ask-billboard-life-after-discussing-divas

 

7,605,000, "Daydream" (1995)
7,271,000, "Music Box" (1993)

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/1555095/ask-billboard-belindas-back-jt-too-mariah-careys-album-sales

 

 

first Janet took time to sell 7M but both albums from mariah has BMG and sony club album releases of about 2M ish that contribute to the 10x platinum cert

[eli's_rhythm]

Janet and RN should at least both be 8x, so that's nice.

[Aquamarine]

Billboard is biased.

[stevyy]

31 minutes ago, Oh My Gaga said:

Billboard is biased.

BB doesn't certify albums. 

[Aquamarine]

1 minute ago, stevyy said:

BB doesn't certify albums. 

Whoever does is biased then.

[stevyy]

Even CB sold 125,000 via BMG Music Club in 2002 when music clubs were going extinct. 

 

The thing of the matter is that Mariah released gigantic albums on a yearly basis... Additionally, when Soundscan was implemented in 1991, it covered around 50% of music sales in the USA. Its market share gradually increased to around 95% in 2018. In the mid 1990s soundscan only reached 75% of market share which means that soundscan missed a quarter of all music sales in the USA at the time - mostly music club sales. 

 

--Pre-soundscan-era--

 

1990 - 4,890,000 - 9xP - Debut

 

-- soundscan era starts ---

 

1991 - 3,597,000 - 4xP - Emotions

1992 - 2,775,000 - 4xP - MTV Unplugged EP

1993 - 7,282,000 - 10xP - Music Box

1994 - 5,625,000 - 5xP - Merry Christmas

1995 - 7,662,000 - 10xP - Daydream

1997 - 3,812,000 - 5xP - Butterfly

1998 - 3,831,000 - 5xP - #1's

1999 - 2,971,000 - 3xP - Rainbow

 

Mariah is the only female in US-music-history to achieve 9 consecutive 3xP++ albums in a decade. 

[momal]

Mariah albums were massively overshipped and fueled by cheap ass $1 Club sales where you could buy 12 albums for $1. People drag artists from the digital era saying $1 singles shouldn't be counted as records sales but include those cheap Club sales to their faves total which are even cheaper than a single lol.

Anyway, Mariah doesn't have any 10 million selling albums through Soundscan like Celine and Whitney and her biggest sellers are actually on par with Janet's there.

[stevyy]

21 minutes ago, momal said:

Mariah albums were massively overshipped and fueled by cheap ass $1 Club sales where you could buy 12 albums for $1. People drag artists from the digital era saying $1 singles shouldn't be counted as records sales but include those cheap Club sales to their faves total which are even cheaper than a single lol.

Anyway, Mariah doesn't have any 10 million selling albums through Soundscan like Celine and Whitney and her biggest sellers are actually on par with Janet's there.

Daydream has been re-certified and now stands at 11xP = 11,000,000 copies.

 

<3

 

1995 - 11xP - Daydream

1993 - Diamond - Music Box

1990 - 9xP - Mariah Carey

1994 - 8xP - Merry Christmas

2005 - 7xP - TEOM

1997 - 5xP - Butterfly

1998 - 5xP - #1's

1991 - 4xP - Emotions

1992 - 4xP - Unplugged

1999 - 3xP - Rainbow

2001 - 2xP - GH

2001 - 1xP - Glitter

2002 - 1xP - CB

2008 - 1xP - Einstein

2009 - 1xP - Memoirs

2003 - Gold - Remixes

2010 - Gold - Merry Xmas 2

 

= highest certified female albums artist in RIAA history. <3

[momal]

6 minutes ago, stevyy said:

Daydream has been re-certified and now stands at 11xP = 11,000,000 copies.

 

<3

 

1995 - 11xP - Daydream

1993 - Diamond - Music Box

1990 - 9xP - Mariah Carey

1994 - 8xP - Merry Christmas

2005 - 7xP - TEOM

1997 - 5xP - Butterfly

1998 - 5xP - #1's

1991 - 4xP - Emotions

1992 - 4xP - Unplugged

1999 - 3xP - Rainbow

2001 - 2xP - GH

2001 - 1xP - Glitter

2002 - 1xP - CB

2008 - 1xP - Einstein

2009 - 1xP - Memoirs

2003 - Gold - Remixes

2010 - Gold - Merry Xmas 2

 

= highest certified female albums artist in RIAA history. <3

CERTIFICATIONS =/= SALES. She doesn't have any 10 million selling albums through Soundscan like Celine and Whitney, sorry. They didn't need additional shipments and cheap ass less than $1 Club sales for their albums to be certified Diamond, they ACTUALLY SOLD 10 MILLION THROUGH ONLY OFFICIAL METRIC THAT COUNTS VERIFIED SALES.

[Scars]

1 hour ago, momal said:

Mariah albums were massively overshipped and fueled by cheap ass $1 Club sales where you could buy 12 albums for $1. People drag artists from the digital era saying $1 singles shouldn't be counted as records sales but include those cheap Club sales to their faves total which are even cheaper than a single lol.

Anyway, Mariah doesn't have any 10 million selling albums through Soundscan like Celine and Whitney and her biggest sellers are actually on par with Janet's there.

The fact you had to randomly bump a thread from four years ago to get to get that off your chest.