charts discussion ChartMasters CSPC Discussion

[OffTheWall]

12 hours ago, aaronsmithjune1 said:

1982 Janet Jackson – 500,000
1984 Dream Street – 300,000
1986 Control – 9,200,000
1989 Rhythm Nation 1814 – 10,900,000
1993 Janet. – 12,600,000
1997 The Velvet Rope – 7,450,000
2001 All for You – 5,900,000
2004 Damita Jo – 1,550,000
2006 20 Y.O. – 1,000,000
2008 Discipline – 700,000
2015 Unbreakable – 400,000

 

 

 

Beyoncé Career Releases: 

 

Destiny's Child - 2,300,000

The writings on the wall - 13,000,000

Survivor. -  10,000,000

Dangerously in Love - 10,000,000

Destiny fulfilled.-  6,250,000 

B'Day 6,100,000

I am Sasha fierce 7,700,000

4 - 3,250,000

BEYONCÉ.-  4,000,000

Lemonade.-  3,000,000

 

 

Well look at this.

 

 

Beyonce has sold more, but Janet's numbers are still good. Janet's sales are equal to Adele's. 

[stevyy]

the janet discography does not include compilations. Design of a Decade sold 3m in the USA alone. 

 

+ if the beyoncé fans include random group recordings for beyoncé... then janet's Jackson 5 releases in which she sings backup should be included as well. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by stevyy

[Dreajae]

3 minutes ago, stevyy said:

the janet discography does not include compilations. Design of a Decade sold 3m in the USA alone. 

 

+ if the beyoncé fans include random group recordings for beyoncé... then janet's Jackson 5 releases in which she sings backup should be included as well. 

Being lead in a best selling girl group isn't random backup though. 

[stevyy]

Just now, Dreajae said:

Being lead in a best selling girl group isn't random backup though. 

it's also not her solo-work. No matter what strategy you apply.. if you count non-solo-music of Beyoncé, you have to do it for everyone else. 

 

 

[ThirdWardBey]

42 minutes ago, stevyy said:

it's also not her solo-work. No matter what strategy you apply.. if you count non-solo-music of Beyoncé, you have to do it for everyone else. 

 

 

Either way Beyoncé has still sold more. 

[stevyy]

15 minutes ago, ThirdWardBey said:

Either way Beyoncé has still sold more. 

she has not. sales receipts are not obsolete

[Anticipating]

13 hours ago, T.C said:

Controls album chart run in the top 50

 

48-49-31-29-26-25-31-25-30-31-34-35-40 44-43-48 

 

At best, she could have scored a gold cert with this but 100k? Unlikely 

 

Also, RN, Janet and TVR are also certified the same but he's got their numbers far apart too. 

Quote

 

The chart run you post make it look like the album sold averagely during 3/4 months. The complete one inside the Top 100 tells a different story yet:
21/07/1986    86-78-52-60-61-48-49-31-29-26-25-31-25-30-31-34-25-40-44-43-59-61-57-59-67-55-51-48-53-52-69-74-76-93
15/06/1987    97-99-78-77-50-49-53-51-55-73-75

As you can see, it was selling for one month before, then 2 months separate your last two entries (43 / 48), then it charted 6 more weeks and returned a full 3 months later for a 11 weeks run.

All certifications are available from 1990 only and year end charts in 1988, but had them been available, Control would have in all likelyhood but certified Gold in 1986 and close to Platinum by the end of 1987 hitting the bottom of the year end Top 100 both times.

Then, the album of course continued selling a bit every year until the release of Design of a Decade. Both RN1814 and Janet. were #1 records there and Control sales have been estimated on close to 5,000 units per year from 1988 to 1994. You get almost on the 100,000 units territory, a figure I rounded to that figure since there is still 23 years of low catalog sales to factore in!

 

 

[Shelter]

2 hours ago, stevyy said:

the janet discography does not include compilations. Design of a Decade sold 3m in the USA alone. 

 

+ if the beyoncé fans include random group recordings for beyoncé... then janet's Jackson 5 releases in which she sings backup should be included as well. 

What's this?

[Eternium]

4 hours ago, stevyy said:

the janet discography does not include compilations. Design of a Decade sold 3m in the USA alone. 

 

+ if the beyoncé fans include random group recordings for beyoncé... then janet's Jackson 5 releases in which she sings backup should be included as well. 

MJD counts them and it puts Janet above all of the females that debuted after her sans Mariah, Celine and Britney. Talk about legendary company  

7 hours ago, Dreajae said:

 Janet has 11 albums. 7 albums from when albums sales were at it's peak in the 80s-late 90s.

 

Her streaming and back catalog is abominable. Theyll pass her next release. 

Right but you have to remember Janet was breaking boundaries for our faves (socially, politically and performance-style). And success is not guaranteed. They will most likely surpass her, but let's wait until they actually do it to downplay Ms. Jackson.

[aaronsmithjune1]

2 hours ago, Shelter said:

What's this?

 

Even if we do album inflation for bey for 80's & 90's standards. She would've out sold Janet by like 30M albums with her solo work alone 

Edited April 17, 2017 by aaronsmithjune1

[stevyy]

Janet is so disrespected by so many teenagers, it's scary what the next generation of teens will do to this generation's acts... 

 

 

[stevyy]

1 minute ago, aaronsmithjune1 said:

 

Even if we do album inflation for bey for 80's & 90's standards. She would've out sold Janet by like 30M albums with her solo work alone 

RIP indeed to your music knowledge. 

[aaronsmithjune1]

6 minutes ago, stevyy said:

RIP indeed to your music knowledge. 

Tf is you talking about?  Bey has sold like 34.5M albums solo. And if she released those album during the time Janet released hers she would've sold far beyond Janet. In fact. I am would've been a 20M seller.  

[Mr. Wonder]

21 hours ago, robbyds said:

The article shed some light to the questions I raised. MJD is always very informative although I should point out that he does make mistakes sometimes. In his own article of fake 10 million sellers, he stated that TVR sold 8.5M (not 10M) and that Control, RN and janet all crossed the 10M mark. Now, TVR is at 7.5M and Control at 9.2M. He also used to quote the same 2.4M sales of Damita Jo which EMI reported when he was active in UkMix.org but made an assumption now that 1M copies were shipped back. All in all a very enlightening article. So happy that he did Janet first!

 

His numbers are inconsistent. His estimates back in May 2006:

 

JJ - 700,000 (US)

DS - 400,000 (US)

Control - 10,400,000

RN1814 - 12,200,000

janet. - 13,500,000

DOAD - 9,200,000

TVR - 8,800,000

AFY - 2,100,000

DJ - 2,400,000

20YO - 1,200,000

 

= 60,900,000

And to account for a margin of error bumps it up to 66,300,000.

 

Receipt

 

And if you look at Janet's strongest market (US), you'll notice more of his inconsistencies. 

 

2017 

JJ - 400k

DS - 250k

Control - 7 million

RN1814 - 8 million

janet. - 8 million

DOAD - 4 million

TVR - 3.8 million

AFY - 3.3 million

DJ - 1.05 million

 

Then look at his estimates for her estimated sales in November 2005:

 

Quote

Janet Jackson (1982) : 400,000 copies sold (82,000 BMG only, #64 Pop albums and #6 Black Albums) 

Dream Street (1984) : 200,000 copies sold (44,000 BMG only, #147 BB200 albums charts and #19 Hip-Hop/R&B Albums) 

Control (1986) : 
RIAA : 5xPlatinum in October 1989 (?!). 
Since 1991 : over 455,000 copies sold soundscan. 
Since 1990 : 883,000 copies sold BMG. 

So, if I count like in my thread about the #2 best selling album of all time : 5m + 455k + 883k x2 + sales 89-91 = 7,500,000. 

Rhythm Nation 1814(1989) : 
RIAA : 6xPlatinum in November 1992 (?!). 
Since 1991 : over 1,320,000 copies sold soundscan. 
Since 1990 : 1,100,000 copies sold BMG. 

With the same method : 6m + 1,32m + 1,1m x2 - sales 91-92 = 9,000,000. 

Janet (1993) : 
RIAA : 6xPlatinum in April 1994 (?!). 
Since 1991 : over 6,930,000 copies sold soundscan. 
Since 1990 : 860,000 copies sold BMG. 

With the same method : 6,93m + 860k x2 = 8,650,000. 

Design Of A Decade 1986-96 (1995) : 
RIAA : 2xPlatinum in December 1995 (?!). 
Since 1991 : over 2,250,000 copies sold soundscan. 
Since 1990 : 1,480,000 copies sold BMG. 

With the same method : 2,25m + 1,48m x2 = 5,210,000. 

The Velvet Rope (1997) : 
RIAA : 3xPlatinum in January 1999 (?!). 
Since 1991 : over 3,180,000 copies sold soundscan. 
Since 1990 : 420,000 copies sold BMG. 

With the same method : 3,18m + 420k x2 = 4,020,000. 

All For You (2001) : 
RIAA : 2xPlatinum in May 2001 (?!). 
Since 1991 : over 3,060,000 copies sold soundscan. 
Since 1990 : 100,000 copies sold BMG. 

With the same method : 3,06m + 100k x2 = 3,360,000. 

Damita Jo (2004) : 
RIAA : Platinum in May 2004. 
Since 1991 : 976,394 copies sold soundscan to date. 
Since 1990 : ?? 

With the same method : 976,394 + Music Clubs (?) = 1,000,000. 

Total RIAA certifications : 25,000,000 
Total Sales (estimations) : 39,340,000 

https://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=556639#p556639

 

And looking at the figures in the post, he based it on certifications and record label press release. And we are all well aware of Janet's criminal under-certifications in the US and abroad. 

 

 

[Dreajae]

3 hours ago, Eternium said:

MJD counts them and it puts Janet above all of the females that debuted after her sans Mariah, Celine and Britney. Talk about legendary company  

Right but you have to remember Janet was breaking boundaries for our faves (socially, politically and performance-style). And success is not guaranteed. They will most likely surpass her, but let's wait until they actually do it to downplay Ms. Jackson.

Janet earned her spot. But there was no need for Janet stans to overinflate her sales so much. Especially over acts who debuted after her. Also local isnt an insult they should be throwing at everyone. 

 

I get it, picking on Madonna gets gets Janet dragged so younger acts make an easier target.

[Mr. Wonder]

On 4/16/2017 at 11:18 AM, T.C said:

What's this based on? 

 

I'm sure based on outdated certifications with an estimated guess, that Control is at 10m, RN is at 12m, Janet. Is at 15m and AFY is at 7m.

 

The rest seem accurate though.

This is essentially what everything in this thread is - estimated guesses. And it's why all of this should be taken with a grain of salt. The only source that has any validity is the record label. 

[Anticipating]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Wonder said:

This is essentially what everything in this thread is - estimated guesses. And it's why all of this should be taken with a grain of salt. The only source that has any validity is the record label. 

He's literally using her record label as a source

Quote

 

The first reason is the aforementioned inflated numbers which flourished since many years. Those claims got so exaggerated that even the supposed conservative figures were way too optimistic. The second reason of the disappointment is the World to US comparison. Considering how many units the Pop / R&B diva sold in the US, expectations could have been higher for global sales.

 

Known facts strongly damage claims of high overseas sales. On 1990 Polygram annual report, we learn that Rhythm Nation 1814 shipped “over 3 million units” for the year while it achieved 2,5 million units in the US alone. Moving from Polygram-owned A&M Records to EMI-owned Virgin label, she then shipped “over 8 million units” by March 31 1994 of Janet. album while she got certified for 6 million sales in the US a few days later, letting a mere 2 million sales for rest of the World sales. The Velvet Rope, which was quite successful in Europe by the artist standards and weaker in the US, sold 4,5+ million by March 1998 and 1,6 million more for the next 12 months, a total of slightly over 6 million including some 3,1 million of which in the US. Then All For You shipped 5,1 million copies by March 2002 with again 3 million units coming from the US alone. On its side, Damita Jo shipped 2,4 million on its day of release thanks to high expectations but its failure resulted in heavy returns and the miss of the IFPI Global Top 50 for the year. 20 Y.O. suffered the same fate.

All those official shipment data prove not only that global claims are truly fanciful but also that non-US sales are way overstated. Janet Jackson least US-axed era still saw half of its sales coming from her native country while the remaining albums had from 60% ot 80% of their Worldwide sales coming from home.

 

 

[Mr. Wonder]

4 minutes ago, Anticipating said:

He's literally using her record label as a source

 

I literally just said this.

 

31 minutes ago, Mr. Wonder said:

And looking at the figures in the post, he based it on certifications and record label press release. And we are all well aware of Janet's criminal under-certifications in the US and abroad. 

 

 

Anything beyond that are just guesses. 

[Tutankhamun]

14 hours ago, Dreajae said:

 Janet has 11 albums. 7 albums from when albums sales were at it's peak in the 80s-late 90s.

 

Her streaming and back catalog is abominable. Theyll pass her next release. 

album sales actually peaked in late 90s/early 00s, where most of Bey(+DC)'s album sales come from...

[Dreajae]

8 hours ago, Tutankhamun said:

album sales actually peaked in late 90s/early 00s, where most of Bey(+DC)'s album sales come from...

Michael made it possible for a ton of artists to sell huge amounts of records with Thriller. The official peak in sales was the late 90s.

 

So even then TWOTW, Survivor and eventually DIL outsold Janets albums during that era. Before nipplegate. 

[Anticipating]

Mariah's article is up @Eternium 164,642,000 album equivalents!

 

1990 Mariah Carey – 14,050,000
1991 Emotions – 8,100,000
1993 Music Box – 26,100,000
1994 Merry Christmas – 13,400,000
1995 Daydream – 19,900,000
1997 Butterfly – 9,650,000
1999 Rainbow – 7,250,000
2001 Glitter – 1,900,000
2002 Charmbracelet – 2,800,000
2005 The Emancipation of Mimi – 8,600,000
2008 E=MC² – 2,150,000
2009 Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel – 1,050,000
2010 Merry Christmas II You – 850,000
2014 Me. I Am Mariah… The Elusive Chanteuse – 300,000

 

Compilations/Lives
1992 MTV Unplugged – 6,500,000
1998 #1s – 15,950,000
2001 Greatest Hits – 4,100,000
2003 The Remixes – 500,000
2008 The Ballads – 800,000
2010 Playlist – 50,000
2011 The Essential – 100,000
2015 #1 To Infinity – 275,000

Total: 144,375,000 pure album sales

 

http://chartmasters.org/2017/04/cspc-mariah-carey-popularity-analysis/

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by Anticipating

[Eternium]

1 1993 – Hero [Music Box] – 14,070,000
2 1994 – All I Want for Christmas Is You [Merry Christmas] – 13,710,000
3 1995 – Always Be My Baby [Daydream] – 12,120,000
4 1993 – Without You [Music Box] – 11,390,000
5 1995 – Fantasy [Daydream] – 10,210,000
6 1991 – Emotions [Emotions] – 8,360,000
7 1990 – Vision of Love [Mariah Carey] – 8,160,000
8 1995 – One Sweet Day [Daydream] – 6,440,000
9 1993 – Dreamlover [Music Box] – 5,250,000
10 2005 – We Belong Together [The Emancipation of Mimi] – 5,050,000
11 1997 – My All [Butterfly] – 4,580,000
12 1999 – Heartbreaker [Rainbow]– 4,300,000
13 1990 – Love Takes Time [Mariah Carey] – 4,160,000
14 1997 – Honey [Butterfly] – 4,000,000
15 1990 – Someday [Mariah Carey]– 3,270,000
16 1990 – I Don’t Wanna Cry [Mariah Carey] – 2,350,000
17 1992 – I’ll Be There [Orphan] – 2,250,000
18 2001 – Loverboy [Glitter] – 2,130,000
19 1999 – Against All Odds (Take a Look at Me Now) [Rainbow] – 2,050,000
20 1991 – Can’t Let Go [Emotions] – 1,860,000
21 1998 – When You Believe [Orphan] – 1,790,000
22 1993 – Anytime You Need a Friend [Music Box] – 1,560,000
23 2008 – Touch My Body [E=MC²]– 1,470,000
24 1991 – Make It Happen [Emotions] – 1,460,000
25 1999 – Thank God I Found You [Rainbow] – 1,420,000

[robbyds]

Good job mimi!

Edited April 29, 2017 by robbyds

[Jonathan]

Mariah  

If he really wants to end Mediatraffic for good he should start to make a WW album pure/equivalent chart  

[aaronsmithjune1]

So, Mariah total records stand around 200M?