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Communion
4 minutes ago, ProudLBS said:

Yes, I do live in a country with nationalized healthcare.

Whoop - and you're alive today cause of it. I'm glad you can recognize the failures of capitalism & how socialism works.

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ennui
12 minutes ago, Trent W said:

Ironically the radical left is even more closed minded in their ideologies than actual conservatives. Normally they are not open to different perspectives.

Not this again... :toofunny3:

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ProudLBS
Just now, Communion said:

Whoop - and you're alive today cause of it. I'm glad you can recognize the failures of capitalism & how socialism works.

Following that logic you should be dead :dies: 

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Yndda
9 minutes ago, Communion said:

A lot of issue is that many people don't want to get into analyzing political theory.

 

To me, what I've seen is that so much of politics comes down to:

Constructionism (or aspects of Post-Modernism) vs Essentialism (or Naturalism). 

 

Someone on the left may think:

Race is socially constructed

Gender & aspects of sex are socially constructed

Class itself is very much constructed

 

While someone on the right may think:

Class itself is the natural result of one's work.

Race itself is just a biological reality / race essentialism

Gender is sex and sex is wholly biological and that there are inherent differences in the ways the sexes work

 

To me, neo-nazis (people who believe race is biological) subscribing to sex essentialism and thinking women brains are more suited to follow men than lead themselves is telling (and there are many neo-nazis who dislike homosexuality due to their belief in biological essentialism and that gay people get in the way of white people's biological need to procreate to keep their 'superior" race going). There's a reason why so many of these groups end up overlapping and congregating because there's shared world views linking them that make their views complimentary to one another.

 

White Supremacy and Anti-Feminism and Capitalism are all very much linked. They all operate out of this naturalistic view that inequality is natural and thus inequality rightful and just -- that the world is unequal because poor people are just not as smart as rich people, that people of color just often don't make as good choices as white people, that women are just different than men. That this is the natural order of things & people who want to change the natural order are authoritarian or marxist. 

 

Constructionists are going to view the world as an axes of systems that marginalize others for the benefit of another group and how this can all be changed through things like social justice. To me, leftists are the true individualists cause they want to free the individual from oppressive systems and bring about equality.

 

This is why "socially liberal but fiscally conservative" makes no sense.

You can see how saying "racial inequality is natural" is bad....

You can see how saying "gender inequality is natural" is bad....

But you can't see how saying "class inequality is natural" is bad?

it's suppertime but who says you can't have tea during? :clap3:

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Communion
Just now, ProudLBS said:

Following that logic you should be dead :dies: 

Literally 35,000 to 45,000 people in America die yearly simply from not having access to healthcare.

You.....walked really right into that.

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Trent W
6 minutes ago, Communion said:

Whoop - and you're alive today cause of it. I'm glad you can recognize the failures of capitalism & how socialism works.

Wtf :ahh:

 

The user is not alive now because he/she has healthcare :ahh:

 

Im in tears :ahh: 

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Weed
3 minutes ago, Trent W said:

Wtf :ahh:

 

The user is not alive now because he/she has healthcare :ahh:

 

Im in tears :ahh: 

I think the thread there is that they're alive because their parents had access to healthcare, not they themselves :ace:

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Kim Kardashian

Depends what you mean by it, but in the sense of halfway between my country's right wing party and my country's left wing party - no.

Centrism doesn't work in that regards.

 

You can't be 'socially liberal and economically conservative', because economic conservatism disproportionately affects marginalised groups.

And you can't just water down policies from either side.

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Trent W
2 minutes ago, Enema said:

This. Centrists are just well off c unts

So having a different ideology from you makes you a **** :toofunny3:

 

A very similar ideology to “if you don’t believe in God you’re going to hell” mentality :toofunny3: 

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Javan

The problem is that people think the difference between left and right is that they have different perspectives, but actually they live in different realities. And if it hasn't been made clear by Trump already, the reality of the right is drenched in alternative facts. So to say that leftists should be more "open minded" towards right-wingers is just as productive as asking one to open their mind to a flat earth.

Centrists, Conservatives & right wingers in majority of matters believe in maintaining the status quo, eventually they realise they don't have a justification to uphold it (be it scientific or logical), so they plea to nature. They argue against constructivist analysis, because eventually their own principles will be deconstructed and jettisoned. That's why in their false reality, race can not be socially constructed, nor can gender, patriarchy, poverty etc, they must be natural as once you deconstruct the status quo, you strip it of it's legitimacy.

The greatest status quo of all in western society is white privilege and white supremacy, which is why you will find white people no matter gay, straight, trans, female, poor or otherwise marginalised, claiming the center to bash liberal ideological frameworks. 

 

qnt6kpO.gif

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Communion
10 minutes ago, HandsOn said:

I think the thread there is that they're alive because their parents had access to healthcare, not they themselves :ace:

Infant mortality rates - America vs most of the rest of the industrialized world:

infant-mortality-cdc.jpg

 

Alabama's infant mortality rates are close to that of Lebanon & poor mothers deal with infant mortality more.

 

Odd how the country with the fewest healthcare protections (yet somehow spends the most on healthcare?) is the one that still sees its population remain suffering with things like infant mortality. 

 

That user literally has a 3x advantage of living through infancy as a baby than an American baby simply from being born in a different country. :deadbanana3:

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Communion
4 minutes ago, Javan said:

The problem is that people think the difference between left and right is that they have different perspectives, but actually they live in different realities. And if it hasn't been made clear by Trump already, the reality of the right is drenched in alternative facts. So to say that leftists should be more "open minded" towards right-wingers is just as productive as asking one to open their mind to a flat earth.

Centrists, Conservatives & right wingers in majority of matters believe in maintaining the status quo, eventually they realise they don't have a justification to uphold it (be it scientific or logical), so they plea to nature. They argue against constructivist analysis, because eventually their own principles will be deconstructed and jettisoned. That's why in their false reality, race can not be socially constructed, nor can gender, patriarchy, poverty etc, they must be natural as once you deconstruct the status quo, you strip it of it's legitimacy.

The greatest status quo of all in western society is white privilege and white supremacy, which is why you will find white people no matter gay, straight, trans, female, claiming the centre to bash liberal ideological frameworks. 

 

qnt6kpO.gif

:clap3::clap3::clap3::clap3::clap3::clap3:

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Javan

This made me realise that political alignment shouldn't be seen as spectrum but as different planes. For example you wouldn't group Islam with Biology and Physics, so should progressives really be on the same plane as the alt right albeit on opposite ends? :celestial5:

 

 

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ProudLBS
11 minutes ago, Communion said:

inequality is natural and thus inequality rightful

If inequality wasn't natural some of us wouldn't be smarter than others, people wouldn't be born without legs, etc. But if inequality is rightful is a completely different question.

To fight inequality, those more capable, who usually earn more money, pay higher taxes to try to make up for the factors the common human being doesn't control, like the fact they were born in a poor household. Those taxes should be used to provide those who are less privileged, but that are willing to work hard, with the tools to fulfill their dreams and have a successful life.

 

originalequityvsequality.jpg

 

14 minutes ago, Communion said:

Literally 35,000 to 45,000 people in America die yearly simply from not having access to healthcare.

You.....walked really right into that.

No, honey, you literally said if it weren't for my country's nationalized healthcare - not healthcare in general -  I'd be dead. Following that logic the entire population of the US (and every single country without nationalized healthcare) would be dead by now.

 

About those 35,000 - 45,000 that die yearly from not having access to healthcare in the US, maybe if your health system worked like everything else does - #FreeMarketBitches - those people could get health treatment for cheap and their deaths could be avoided.

 

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Buddy

 

12 minutes ago, Javan said:

The problem is that people think the difference between left and right is that they have different perspectives, but actually they live in different realities. And if it hasn't been made clear by Trump already, the reality of the right is drenched in alternative facts. So to say that leftists should be more "open minded" towards right-wingers is just as productive as asking one to open their mind to a flat earth.

Centrists, Conservatives & right wingers in majority of matters believe in maintaining the status quo, eventually they realise they don't have a justification to uphold it (be it scientific or logical), so they plea to nature. They argue against constructivist analysis, because eventually their own principles will be deconstructed and jettisoned. That's why in their false reality, race can not be socially constructed, nor can gender, patriarchy, poverty etc, they must be natural as once you deconstruct the status quo, you strip it of it's legitimacy.

The greatest status quo of all in western society is white privilege and white supremacy, which is why you will find white people no matter gay, straight, trans, female, poor or otherwise marginalised, claiming the center to bash liberal ideological frameworks. 

 

qnt6kpO.gif

Idk, I've seen the left speak of some pretty "alternative facts" throughout the last 4 years
 

qnt6kpO.gif

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slw84
2 hours ago, Trent W said:

Politically speaking?

 

No extreme views on either side.

nope. I think I'm an independent populist who has centrist views in certain aspects, conservative views in other

HEY5V8p.gif

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Communion
5 minutes ago, ProudLBS said:

If inequality wasn't natural some of us wouldn't be smarter than others, people wouldn't be born without legs, etc. But if inequality is rightful is a completely different question.

To fight inequality, those more capable, who usually earn more money, pay higher taxes to try to make up for the factors the common human being doesn't control, like the fact they were born in a poor household. Those taxes should be used to provide those who are less privileged, but that are willing to work hard, with the tools to fulfill their dreams and have a successful life.

 

originalequityvsequality.jpg

 

No, honey, you literally said if it weren't for my country's nationalized healthcare - not healthcare in general -  I'd be dead. Following that logic the entire population of the US (and every single country without nationalized healthcare) would be dead by now.

 

About those 35,000 - 45,000 that die yearly from not having access to healthcare in the US, maybe if your health system worked like everything else does - #FreeMarketBitches - those people could get health treatment for cheap and their deaths could be avoided.

 

Or we can simply redistribute the wealth of rich people. :celestial5:

 

Nationalized healthcare = you had access to healthcare. You could not die due to a lack of access. While even developed countries see 45k people die yearly due to a lack of access. Your nationalized healthcare is why so few babies die. The science is just not on your side.

 

And I... have no clue at all what you're trying to say. Do you.... understand how American healthcare works? It is the free market. The most free markets. Too free. Conservatives want to make it even freer where you wait until you get cancer to buy insurance to beat cancer and just hope you make enough to beat said cancer. That's why so many can go into debt for life from a diagnoses. Again, how many people die yearly in Portugal due to a lack of access to healthcare?

 

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Hazard
2 minutes ago, slw84 said:

nope. I think I'm an independent populist who has centrist views in certain aspects, conservative views in other

 

HEY5V8p.gif

 

You work hard, have multiple degrees, and make your money fair and square.

 

You don't deserve to be taxed highly and punished just for being successful.

 

HEY5V8p.gif

 

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Javan
13 minutes ago, Buddy said:

 

Idk, I've seen the left speak of some pretty "alternative facts" throughout the last 4 years
 

qnt6kpO.gif

My post wasn't to say that people on the left are always right, there will always be miscalculations and misdiagnosis along the way. But results behind these calculations vary depending on motivation. Progressives are motivated by science, whereas conservatives are motivated by tradition/superstition and whatever centrists are motivated by is partial to their surroundings, Alt right/nazis are motivated by hate. My point is, if you don't get it by now, is that you can't nor should you see eye to eye or open your mind to ideologies that have motivations in utter contradiction to your own. First you must change your motivation.

 

qnt6kpO.gif

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slw84
2 minutes ago, Hazard said:

You work hard, have multiple degrees, and make your money fair and square.

 

You don't deserve to be taxed highly and punished just for being successful.

 

HEY5V8p.gif

 

This is true but I am still about America first.

Too many outsourced jobs under Bush and Obama and globalism was not a great benefit for our competitive status in the world.

 

I think i'm more centrist on things like LGBT issues, abortion and gun control but more on one side for other issues.

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Tasty
5 minutes ago, Hazard said:

You work hard, have multiple degrees, and make your money fair and square.

 

You don't deserve to be taxed highly and punished just for being successful.

 

HEY5V8p.gif

 

Why is it a punishment for you to help marginalized people have humane life conditions and the ability to succeed in life?

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