Megan Pete Posted October 17 Posted October 17 Surrogacy within Italy was already illegal, but now they have criminalized travelling to other countries to use a surrogate and then bringing the baby back. Thoughts?
Doctor Dick Posted October 17 Posted October 17 The whole point of conservatism is to conserve (meaning preserve or protect) ideals but that way of thinking prohibits evolution which is the natural way for life. No one who is conservative wants change. But their way of living also results from evolution so they will always be hypocrites imo. 5
YellowRibbon Posted October 17 Posted October 17 Not a fan of surrogacy but Giorgia Melodemon needs to be locked up!
Orsay Posted October 17 Posted October 17 Good luck with that abysmal birth rate! meanwhile most couples who get surrogates are straight 8 1
shookspeare Posted October 17 Posted October 17 I had no idea surrogacy was controversial and it turns out it's illegal in like half of Europe?? 4
Pikachoo Posted October 17 Posted October 17 Just now, shookspeare said: I had no idea surrogacy was controversial and it turns out it's illegal in like half of Europe?? why?? i didn't know it was controversial either 1
ChooseyLover Posted October 17 Posted October 17 (edited) Not a fan of surrogacy but it's wild how gay couples don't have a legal way to build a family in Italy, since adoption is only allowed to married couples of the opposite sex... Yikes. Edited October 17 by ChooseyLover 1
byzantium Posted October 17 Posted October 17 (edited) Italy, stop trying to make the US look good in comparison. Edited October 17 by byzantium 1
Space Cowboy Posted October 17 Posted October 17 4 minutes ago, shookspeare said: I had no idea surrogacy was controversial and it turns out it's illegal in like half of Europe?? 3 minutes ago, Pikachoo said: why?? i didn't know it was controversial either Surrogacy is largely viewed as rich people exploiting poor women from 3rd world countries and using them as breeding cattle. It's a brutal, capitalistic and anti-feminist practice, basically buying children while exploiting disadvantaged women. I personally find paid surrogacy immoral. Opposing paid surrogacy and refusing to treat women just as mere human incubator seems logical to me. 4 9 2 6
Letters From Adi Posted October 17 Posted October 17 When there aren't enough people to pay taxes, import more people only to be racist towards them. The cycle just continues on...
Pikachoo Posted October 17 Posted October 17 2 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said: Surrogacy is largely viewed as rich people exploiting poor women from 3rd world countries and using them as breeding cattle. It's a brutal, capitalistic and anti-feminist practice, basically buying children while exploiting disadvantaged women. I personally find paid surrogacy immoral. Opposing paid surrogacy and refusing to treat women just as mere human incubator seems logical to me. well I get that, but think of how beautiful it is to give someone a baby when they otherwise would never be able to. it can be such a blessing. 1
Arrows Posted October 17 Posted October 17 4 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said: Surrogacy is largely viewed as rich people exploiting poor women from 3rd world countries and using them as breeding cattle. It's a brutal, capitalistic and anti-feminist practice, basically buying children while exploiting disadvantaged women. I personally find paid surrogacy immoral. Opposing paid surrogacy and refusing to treat women just as mere human incubator seems logical to me. You don't think women should be able to do whatever they want with their own bodies? 11 2 1
shookspeare Posted October 17 Posted October 17 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said: Surrogacy is largely viewed as rich people exploiting poor women from 3rd world countries and using them as breeding cattle. It's a brutal, capitalistic and anti-feminist practice, basically buying children while exploiting disadvantaged women. I personally find paid surrogacy immoral. Opposing paid surrogacy and refusing to treat women just as mere human incubator seems logical to me. That's interesting, I read a lot and somehow I don't think I've ever come across any controversy around surrogacy. I can see where this comes from now, I'm just surprised I've never heard anyone talk about it before. It seems very normalized in the US and I've always seen it as an agreement between two willing parties Edited October 17 by shookspeare
Kummercell Posted October 17 Posted October 17 surrogacy is human trafficking so unfortunately I'll have to applaud Ms. Mussolini on this one 2 4 6
Megan Pete Posted October 17 Author Posted October 17 1 minute ago, Arrows said: You don't think women should be able to do whatever they want with their own bodies? Ahh yes, improvished women from third world countries are selling their bodies for 9 entire months (+ the permanent effects of pregnancy) just because they love to and for no other reason 2 5 1
Pepo Posted October 17 Posted October 17 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Orsay said: Good luck with that abysmal birth rate! meanwhile most couples who get surrogates are straight Exactly 30 minutes ago, Antisocialites said: Worst person you know made a great point. The point is that all women should be free to do whatever they want with their body. This is the whole purpose of democracy. OT: The country is in shambles. No minimum wage, rising cost of living, high youth unemployment rate, prohibitive renting, stagnant salaries, and so on, and what are the Prime Minister's priorities? Banning surrogacy as a way to spite the LGBTQ community. Or at least this was her intention. Italy, truly the laughing stock of Western Europe. Edited October 17 by Pepo 5
teresaguidice Posted October 17 Posted October 17 7 minutes ago, Pikachoo said: why?? i didn't know it was controversial either there's a lot of risk for extreme exploitation of poor women. i think from media, people often envision surrogates as warm altruistic women who just love being pregnant when most are just very desperate and in horrific situations. and even with well intentioned surrogacy seekers, some people find the practice just generally dystopian and unethical for rich people to be using strangers as incubators to harvest children from. 1
Antisocialites Posted October 17 Posted October 17 1 minute ago, Pepo said: The point is that all women should be free to do whatever they want with their body. This is the whole purpose of democracy. 2 minutes ago, Megan Pete said: Ahh yes, improvished women from third world countries are selling their bodies for 9 entire months (+ the permanent effects of pregnancy) just because they love to and for no other reason 1
teresaguidice Posted October 17 Posted October 17 6 minutes ago, shookspeare said: It seems very normalized in the US and I've always seen it as an agreement between two willing parties i think its because its popular with celebrities and closely associated with #loveislove obama era liberal gay representation, its only represented positively in mainstream american film/tv usually. 1
Space Cowboy Posted October 17 Posted October 17 Just now, Pikachoo said: well I get that, but think of how beautiful it is to give someone a baby when they otherwise would never be able to. it can be such a blessing. I watched a video some time ago that deeply affected me. It showed a surrogate giving birth, crying out and desperately pleading to hold the baby she had carried for nine months. However, she wasn't allowed to. The child was taken from her immediately after birth, and she will likely never see that baby again. How is that not traumatazing? How is that even legal? Adoption exist. There are zero reasons to use surrogacy besides own selfishness. Surrogacy cheapens the value of human life and turns motherhood into a business transaction 3 1
Space Cowboy Posted October 17 Posted October 17 12 minutes ago, Arrows said: You don't think women should be able to do whatever they want with their own bodies? I f*cking HATE this argument. "Let's allow disadvantaged women to put their lives at risk and force them to endure a deeply traumatic experience because, hey, it's their choice?" Poor women turn to surrogacy as a means of survival. If they had proper support systems: access to healthcare, financial stability, and social safety nets, there would be no surrogacy. It's not a choice made out of freedom, it's one made out of desperation. Without the economic pressures forcing them into this situation, surrogacy would not exist. 4 3
Arrows Posted October 17 Posted October 17 20 minutes ago, Megan Pete said: Ahh yes, improvished women from third world countries are selling their bodies for 9 entire months (+ the permanent effects of pregnancy) just because they love to and for no other reason Surrogacy often not being right doesn't mean it's always wrong. All the cases of surrogacy I've known has involved middle-to-upper class American women. What is your case against that? 1
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