charts discussion Taylor ties Elvis on Billboard 200

[Jjang]

Just now, Squall said:

Rumours say she wrote them about you, it must be a reason, who knows?  

ok 

[Taemira]

[GraceRandolph]

Jjang isn't wrong. A lot of presentism and streaming era concepts and standards are being applied to past artists in an attempt to make Taylor look bigger. I also don't think Taylor's music or talent is substantive enough to be remembered. Her success and relationships is what most people talk about, or her drama like the Kanye saga.

[PoisonPill]

15 hours ago, Jjang said:

she will never be bigger than the beatles or mj. stop spewing bs. 

 

shes a massive force even on all time lists and thats recognized but when kids in 2054 are singing august then you can talk that talk. 

This is a funny point to make considering the insane longevity and multi-generational impact she’s already had. Her trajectory gives us every reason to believe that her relevance will survive 

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by PoisonPill

[Squall]

9 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

Jjang isn't wrong. A lot of presentism and streaming era concepts and standards are being applied to past artists in an attempt to make Taylor look bigger. I also don't think Taylor's music or talent is substantive enough to be remembered. Her success and relationships is what most people talk about, or her drama like the Kanye saga.

"But but but, people listen to her because Kanye and relashionships so streams and sales cancelled!!!!!"

 

The way you guys easily talk about how streaming makes today's artists bigger but completely ignore the fact it was way easier to sell music back then is quite funny too. Fun fact: Midnights will cross 3M pure sales in the US.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Squall

[GraceRandolph]

2 minutes ago, PoisonPill said:

This is a funny point to make considering the insane longevity she’s already showed. Her trajectory gives us every reason to believe that her impact and relevance will survive across generations

You really think teens in 2055 are going to care about Taylor Swift? Why? What about her stands out besides her success and PR relationships?

[GraceRandolph]

Just now, Squall said:

"But but but, people listen to her because Kanye and relashionships so streams and sales cancelled!!!!!"

 

The way you guys easily talk about how streaming makes today's artists bigger but completely ignore the fact it was way easier to sell music back then is quite funny too. Fun fact: Midnights will cross 3M pure sales in the US.

What did Taylor innovate or change about culture? What concepts does her music explore that were fresh and new? What makes you believe teens will still like her once she is in her fifties and beyond?

[PoisonPill]

4 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

You really think teens in 2055 are going to care about Taylor Swift? Why? What about her stands out besides her success and PR relationships?

Do teens in 2023 care about Elvis and the Beatles? Not really, but they’ve heard of them and recognize a couple of their songs, which will be true of Taylor also.

Edited December 25, 2023 by PoisonPill

[GraceRandolph]

1 minute ago, PoisonPill said:

Do teens in 2023 care about Elvis and the Beatles?

Not many, but people can recognize the Beatles for being apart of the British invasion, and for impacting rock n roll. Artists need to shake the table in some way to be remembered.

[Squall]

5 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

What did Taylor innovate or change about culture? What concepts does her music explore that were fresh and new? What makes you believe teens will still like her once she is in her fifties and beyond?

There are literally TONS of new artists who were hugely influenced by her, what are you even talking about?  

Her impact is beyond music industry and music itself: not only she is a huge musician who is at the top of the game, but her popularity transcends the music industry.

 

I love the "but teens won't care!!!" typical argument when not only her fanbase has been growing up with her since 2006 but also she can't stop gaining new fans over the years.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Squall

[WildHeart]

7 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

You really think teens in 2055 are going to care about Taylor Swift? Why? 

Teens of today don't care about Elvis, Madonna, Elton, Celine, Whitney etc. either

 

[GraceRandolph]

Just now, WildHeart said:

Teens of today don't care about Elvis, Madonna, Elton, Celine, Whitney etc. either

 

But those artists didn't cater to teens, they aimed at adults. Taylor has always marketed herself towards teens. Adults and historians care about those artists.

[Arrows]

5 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

You really think teens in 2055 are going to care about Taylor Swift? Why? What about her stands out besides her success and PR relationships?

Teens today do not buy lots of MJ, Elvis or Madonna albums, but they’re still remembered as legends.

 

She represents our age perfectly - the early age of social media, open mental health discussion, the potential of femininity and the idea that (female) feelings have value. She’s the quintessential female songwriter and will be remembered as probably the best pop storyteller.

[GraceRandolph]

1 minute ago, Arrows said:

Teens today do not buy lots of MJ, Elvis or Madonna albums, but they’re still remembered as legends.

 

She represents our age perfectly - the early age of social media, open mental health discussion, the potential of femininity and the idea that (female) feelings have value. She’s the quintessential female songwriter and will be remembered as probably the best pop storyteller.

So no one talked about female feelings in music before Taylor?

[Squall]

2 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

But those artists didn't cater to teens, they aimed at adults. Taylor has always marketed herself towards teens. Adults and historians care about those artists.

?

 

Quote

Some 53% of U.S. adults said they were fans of Swift, and 16% identified themselves as “avid” fans of the star.

Some 45% of avid fans are millennials, people between the ages of 27 and 42, while 23% are baby boomers, 21% are Gen Xers and just 11% are members of Gen Z—those 26 and under.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/03/14/more-than-half-of-us-adults-say-theyre-taylor-swift-fans-survey-finds/?sh=72b6772e6877

 

 

https://pro.morningconsult.com/instant-intel/taylor-swift-fandom-demographic

 

It's getting embarrassing  

[WildHeart]

5 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

But those artists didn't cater to teens, they aimed at adults. Taylor has always marketed herself towards teens. Adults and historians care about those artists.

Elvis and The Beatles definitely did. Big part of their fanbases were teenage girls. 

 

And teens of past are adults of today. Taylor has a big millennial fanbase. Teens of today will be adults of future too. They are not immortal. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by WildHeart

[Arrows]

Just now, GraceRandolph said:

So no one talked about female feelings in music before Taylor?

When something is this popular and culturally omnipotent, it always has historical importance. It’s never obvious when you live through it, but I promise you historians will find a way to make Taylor Swift represent this time in history.

 

Her popularity is not about desire, admiration or controversy in the way previous pop stars were. She’s popular because people (girls) relate to her in a very deep way.

 

Taylor is a female songwriter who writes about being a female to a mainly female audience, and does that on a massive scale. She’s uniting women in a way no other female artist has in the history of humanity. I promise you this is important.

[Badgalbriel]

31 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

You really think teens in 2055 are going to care about Taylor Swift? Why? What about her stands out besides her success and PR relationships?

Why would teens care about her? Teens also don't care about Beatles and MJ,except for a few outliers. 

[Jjang]

40 minutes ago, PoisonPill said:

This is a funny point to make considering the insane longevity she’s already showed. Her trajectory gives us every reason to believe that her impact and relevance will survive across generations

I didn't say not a single soul will remember her. I said her chances of being remembered in the same manner as MJ/Beatles are slim. You guys are just so arrogant due to her current domination. 

 

40 years after their debut, that means 25 more years for Taylor, their greatest hits album was the greatest-selling album of the 2000s and sold over 40 million copies. Yes, Taylor's a streaming juggernaut and her catalog is being wildly consumed right now. But she's not meeting those levels of accomplishment and their implications. 

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Jjang

[Headlock]

2 hours ago, Jjang said:

 

I didn’t say she’s new I said IMO her music and brand don’t have what it takes to be generationally transcendent globally in the same manner that the Beatles and MJ still are 50 + years into their careers. 

 

She was always a huge seller (thanks to her country base) but let’s not act she’s been the talk of the town and on her imperial phase esp. globally since 2006. It began 7 years after that, calmed down a bit  and then spearheaded again with the re-releases campaign. 

 

I don’t think kids 30 years from now are gonna care about her re-releasing her music, her boring easter eggs, her dire performances or anything that makes her now culturally significant because her significance has like 90% to do with her just being a massive seller and building on that momentum. 

 

People could actually name you specific Beatles songs that changed the trajectory and the way we listen to music. the same can be said about MJ and his performances/persona/videos. Their legacies are eternal and felt through generations because they exist outside the frame of just being wildly consumed. Time can remove the significance of that. 

 

I actually think Lana has more of a chance at becoming that (sort of a Nirvana like effect) than Taylor lol. 

Neither of those artists are relevant to this thread, you have created your own goalpost  Taylor not having the same inter-generational appeal of The Beatles (to you) doesn’t mean she doesn’t have any inter-generational appeal at all 

 

The argument that Taylor isn’t actually relevant or popular, just wildly consumed, is directly a contradiction. She is wildly consumed because of these things. She already has remained relevant for two generations (millennials and Gen Z), and it is evident that many older people also like her music and attend her concerts. It really is a straightforward prediction that those same people will pass on her music to their children. And most importantly, Taylor is not stopping anytime soon, she seems to have an unmitigated drive to keep making music and tour, which is the #1 way to maintaining relevance and a legacy.

[Headlock]

1 hour ago, GraceRandolph said:

Jjang isn't wrong. A lot of presentism and streaming era concepts and standards are being applied to past artists in an attempt to make Taylor look bigger. I also don't think Taylor's music or talent is substantive enough to be remembered. Her success and relationships is what most people talk about, or her drama like the Kanye saga.

Y’all have been saying this since the mid-2010s, take the hint already, she’s not going anywhere 

[GraceRandolph]

Just now, Headlock said:

Y’all have been saying this since the mid-2010s, take the hint already, she’s not going anywhere 

That's less than a decade ago. I truly don't know how her music and career will be interpreted in 50 years, and I'm not sure it'll be a positive retrospective.

[Headlock]

1 hour ago, GraceRandolph said:

But those artists didn't cater to teens, they aimed at adults. Taylor has always marketed herself towards teens. Adults and historians care about those artists.

Girl  Elvis and The Beatles invented teenage hysteria over musicians, they were literally mobbed everywhere they went by teenage girls 

[GraceRandolph]

Just now, Headlock said:

Girl  Elvis and The Beatles invented teenage hysteria over musicians, they were literally mobbed everywhere they went by teenage girls 

I don't know much about them, I just find all these artists bland and boring for the most part.

[Headlock]

2 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

That's less than a decade ago. I truly don't know how her music and career will be interpreted in 50 years, and I'm not sure it'll be a positive retrospective.

And also a decade after her debut, what’s not clicking. She’s the biggest artist in the world almost two decades into her career, is continuing to find new listeners and fans, and is showing no signs of settling down.