discussion Why are we expected to "come out"?

[Better Mistakes]

Watched Heartstopper and loved the entire series and it really struck a chord with me and had me reflecting. It got me thinking, why are we expected to "come out" regarding our sexuality/ identity? Why does it have to be a thing as opposed to it just being nonchalant in passing like "so, this is my bf/gf..." / "I'm seeing xxxxxx"? 

 

Anyway, some other think pieces from the series:

In one scene, Nick says to Coach Singh, “None of the guys know about me,” (his relationship with Charlie/ bisexuality) to which she replies, “Well, you don’t owe them that information, okay?”

 

And also:

Edited August 14, 2023 by Better Mistakes

[Domination]

You don’t have to, actually. I don’t have anything against it but it absolutely and will never be my scene. A lot of cishet people feel owed a coming out, even ones who think of themselves as progressive. It creates a very weird power imbalance and I try to keep it as brief and nonchalant in any scenario where I’ve had to come out.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Domination

[Bloodflowers.]

Because being born as homosexual is an anomaly within society. Most people are born heterosexual so you expect people to be heterosexual unless clarified otherwise. If percentage of homosexuals were much higher than around 2-5% to, let's so 30-40%, then all people would have to clarify that but also homophobia wouldn't be a thing because homosexuality would be so common among our species.

[Virgos Groove]

Because we live in a heteronormative society where people either assume you're straight or suspect you're queer (and not in an accepting manner).

 

Do we have to come out? Of course not, but doing so with your close relatives and friends can ease a certain burden (assuming they don't react negatively) and avoid "so, when are you getting a girlfriend?" questions.

 

Personally, I have come out to my close family and most of my friends. My grandparents are the only people I'm fully in the closet to. When it comes to everybody else, I just live my life and keep it moving.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Virgos Groove

[imabadkid]

I don't think people really do anymore. I've met so many guys who have sex with guys but only date women... a lot of them never went through the formal process of coming out. People still think its 1999. There's so many men who are out here exploring sexually, they may not be screaming it from the rooftops but it's happening and a large portion of them don't "come out" now some of them consider themselves "straight" so there's that but I don't really think coming out is as relevant in 2023 as it was 10 years ago.

[99sandthe2000s]

[Better Mistakes]

15 minutes ago, imabadkid said:

I don't think people really do anymore. I've met so many guys who have sex with guys but only date women... a lot of them never went through the formal process of coming out. People still think its 1999. There's so many men who are out here exploring sexually, they may not be screaming it from the rooftops but it's happening and a large portion of them don't "come out" now some of them consider themselves "straight" so there's that but I don't really think coming out is as relevant in 2023 as it was 10 years ago.

This is an interesting point. I've noticed on "the apps", especially since post-covid I'd say, that there are A LOT more "curious/ straight" and bi guys on there compared to even say 3 years ago. 

[Daddy]

Isn't it obvious? We don't have to but it helps visibility and the normalisation of it. 

 

People saying coming outs are obsolete live in a dreamland.

[Better Mistakes]

21 minutes ago, Domination said:

You don’t have to, actually. I don’t have anything against it but it absolutely and will never be my scene. A lot of cishet people feel owed a coming out, even ones who think of themselves as progressive. It creates a very weird power imbalance and I try to keep it as brief and nonchalant in any scenario where I’ve had to come out.

100% my own idea too. I can't lie, during high school (2007-2013), especially the first half when asked if i were gay, I'd deny it and sure it would've been nice to have lived in the same gay utopian fantasy that exists in heartstopper where all their friends are queer etc. But that isn't the reality. But yeah, today i feel almost more empowered keeping it at a cute/ nonchalant passing comment if needed.

[Better Mistakes]

2 minutes ago, Daddy said:

Isn't it obvious? We don't have to but it helps visibility and the normalisation of it. 

 

People saying coming outs are obsolete live in a dreamland.

i agree it would help with visibility and normalisation but at the same time, wouldn't keeping it nonchalant also help with normalisation, since you are quite literally treating it as a normal aspect of everyday life. 

[LittleStarmen]

11 minutes ago, Better Mistakes said:

i agree it would help with visibility and normalisation but at the same time, wouldn't keeping it nonchalant also help with normalisation, since you are quite literally treating it as a normal aspect of everyday life. 

It can not be nonchalant because society's assumes everyone is straight.

 

People are still raised to raise another family so with whom you gonna raise that and have the actual sex/or any other way to achieve that is unavoidable.

 

No one needs to come out unless they are ready but the rich and famous who live priveledge lifes already and can change society (people like tom cruise,Cristiano Ronaldo etc)

Edited August 14, 2023 by LittleStarmen

[montacelo]

Yes, I agree. Nobody should have to "come out". I think if you want to its totally cool, but if you rather keep it to yourself or just tell people when you are actually dating someone thats perfectly fine also. 

[Domination]

2 minutes ago, LittleStarmen said:

It can not be nonchalant because society's assumes everyone is straight.

Why not? If your coworker asks if you have a girlfriend and you say “No, I’m gay”, that’s about as nonchalant as it gets.

[Mystical]

42 minutes ago, Bloodflowers. said:

Because being born as homosexual is an anomaly within society. Most people are born heterosexual so you expect people to be heterosexual unless clarified otherwise. If percentage of homosexuals were much higher than around 2-5% to, let's so 30-40%, then all people would have to clarify that but also homophobia wouldn't be a thing because homosexuality would be so common among our species.

If only you knew how many “straight” married guys with kids asked me to top them… There are definitely WAY more gays than just 2-5% 

[LittleStarmen]

3 minutes ago, Domination said:

Why not? If your coworker asks if you have a girlfriend and you say “No, I’m gay”, that’s about as nonchalant as it gets.

That is coming out. The moment you say someone you are not straight event as nonchlant as that. As a lgbtq person i come out everyday to random people. like uber drivers asking if i like girls from my country....

 

In the ideal world The coworker would never assume the gender of my partner.

Edited August 14, 2023 by LittleStarmen

[LittleStarmen]

8 minutes ago, montacelo said:

Yes, I agree. Nobody should have to "come out". I think if you want to its totally cool, but if you rather keep it to yourself or just tell people when you are actually dating someone thats perfectly fine also. 

Yeah but what do you do when your auntie wants to set up with her friends daughter... Or when during the a job interview someone asks your marital status...

Again it makes the act of coming out necessary daily because everyone will assume you are straight otherwise.

Edited August 14, 2023 by LittleStarmen

[Starshine]

ive come out nonchalantly if someone asked. having an emotional sit down like a top model reveal just to talk about what and who I do in the bedroom… couldn’t be me and I shouldn’t have to explain myself. mind your business.mp3. It’s so 2010s coded where gays filmed coming out reaction videos for youtube. 

[Domination]

5 minutes ago, LittleStarmen said:

Yeah but what do you do when your auntie wants to set up with her friends daughter... Or when during the a job interview someone asks your marital status...

Again it makes the act of coming out necessary daily because everyone will assume you are straight otherwise.

Family, especially ones that can’t read the room, are obviously a special case and the traumatic experience of having the emotional sit down should be reserved for these scenarios only.

 

I understand my perspective is very western but if asked my marital status in a job interview I would simply say I’m not interested in discussing that, even if I was straight. Very weird.

[LittleStarmen]

4 minutes ago, Domination said:

Family, especially ones that can’t read the room, are obviously a special case and the traumatic experience of having the emotional sit down should be reserved for these scenarios only.

 

I understand my perspective is very western but if asked my marital status in a job interview I would simply say I’m not interested in discussing that, even if I was straight. Very weird.

Yes it just sucks but that doesnt mean everyperson you have to sit down and tell about your life. But you may have coments from your boss asking if you want kids one day or stuff like that... Or someone wants to set u up on a date or has a crush on you....

 

And then naturally you have the fear of being rejected if you are the only queer person in your team who is going to a strip club on friday after work.

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by LittleStarmen

[Better Mistakes]

11 minutes ago, Starshine said:

ive come out nonchalantly if someone asked. having an emotional sit down like a top model reveal just to talk about what and who I do in the bedroom… couldn’t be me and I shouldn’t have to explain myself. mind your business.mp3. It’s so 2010s coded where gays filmed coming out reaction videos for youtube. 

100% how I’m feeling. Whilst there’s still a tonne more progress to be made, I do think this is something we’re starting to move away from at a quick pace 

[montacelo]

2 hours ago, LittleStarmen said:

Yeah but what do you do when your auntie wants to set up with her friends daughter... Or when during the a job interview someone asks your marital status...

Again it makes the act of coming out necessary daily because everyone will assume you are straight otherwise.

Those don't seem like scenarios that are "necessary" to me. In the first case just tell them you're not interested. And in the second you can respond but not give details. I think it is extremely rare to be in a position where it is necessary to come out.  Regardless, everyone should have the right to state or not state their own personal information. 

[LittleStarmen]

20 minutes ago, montacelo said:

Those don't seem like scenarios that are "necessary" to me. In the first case just tell them you're not interested. And in the second you can respond but not give details. I think it is extremely rare to be in a position where it is necessary to come out.  Regardless, everyone should have the right to state or not state their own personal information. 

First scenario they are gonna ask why you are not interested if she/he is beautiful/perfect for you and you are single and bla bla bla.

 

Second scenario, someone can assume you are married with a woman and then you have to explain still... Your boss will tell to bring your wife to the work event and stuff like that...

Edited August 14, 2023 by LittleStarmen

[chaklux]

3 hours ago, imabadkid said:

I don't think people really do anymore. I've met so many guys who have sex with guys but only date women... a lot of them never went through the formal process of coming out. People still think its 1999. There's so many men who are out here exploring sexually, they may not be screaming it from the rooftops but it's happening and a large portion of them don't "come out" now some of them consider themselves "straight" so there's that but I don't really think coming out is as relevant in 2023 as it was 10 years ago.

As much as coming out is not essential and you owe no one that . What you just described can be attributed to internalised homophobia and the society homophobic effect also. Downlow  men sleep with men in discreet but will only ever be linked to womej romantically due to stigma. It’s not helping matters really. 

[byzantium]

So for starters, you do not have to.  Everyone's situation is different, and one should not be pressured to do something that they are uncomfortable with or that might endanger them. 

With that said, I think it is healthy to come to terms with your identity and who you are.  Lorde knows that this can be a very hard process and I make no representations otherwise, but life is too short to spend time in denial.   I think the natural effect of this is that you become comfortable sharing who you are with people.  For me this is just the topic naturally coming up in conversation.  I think the process of formally "coming out" is already a little outdated.  

Edited August 14, 2023 by byzantium

[Phaunzie]

You don't have to, not everyone needs to  know. You are entitled to your privacy especially when telling your business could get you killed, discriminated against or throw out your home.