base talk Taylor's career is following Madonna's down to a T (proof inside)

[Jay07]

17 minutes ago, TROJAN said:

This. Madonna is a nobody 

Girl, if Madonna, the biggest female entertainer of all time is a nobody, where does that leave her bad clones. I mean, I get this is bad trolling but at least try to make it make sense.

[Chris]

47 minutes ago, TROJAN said:

This. Madonna is a nobody 

She clearly is a somebody since you literally break your heels to rush in every thread she's in.

 

 

1 hour ago, sasashite said:

Also her audience is WAY more bigger than Madonna's.

   

 

What is in the air today?

 

[mypaintoyou]

I only know a couple Madonna songs 

but Taylor is her own league 

[Bonicap]

Any OTH can bring something objective and measurable to the argument or is everything going to revolve around terms like "impact", "controversial", "cultural reset" "relevance", "timeless"... 

 

"Taylor only has awards and sales". As opposed to your opinions and personal phobias?

[Pristine]

4 hours ago, mypaintoyou said:

I only know a couple Madonna songs 

but Taylor is her own league 

this

[Soda Pop Queen]

On 11/23/2022 at 12:28 AM, Jay07 said:

It's a completely superficial comparison that discounts Madonna's risk taking and boundary pushing and backlash that came with it. Your first comparisons are basically "was successful" while negating Madonna's hit making and iconic moments. Her first album alone contains Holiday, one of her most enduring classics. Where's the parallel for Taylor? I won't even comment on trying to equate Like a Prayer, an album where Madonna deals with her divorce, her mother's death and her father's abuse with Taylor going to Max Martin for a hit. Or comparing the backlash Madonna got for Sex and Erotica for daring to be sexual on her own terms with Taylor feuding with Kim and Kanye. Or even the impact Madonna had bringing electronica and ambient music to the mainstream with Taylor doing slightly more stripped down folk than she usually does. Where are the Aaron Dressner hits you alluded to, Orbit was producing everyone back then, from All Saints to Blur. Where is the impact?

 

Again, it's completely delusional fan fic trying to make Taylor seem more important than she is, she never had the impact or courage of Madonna.

and BLOOP. The thread should've ended right here. These young stan takes are terrible and lack perspective and historical knowledge. At least be more clever with your trolling.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Soda Pop Queen

[Soda Pop Queen]

[Iaintsorry]

This is a huge reach lol 

Theyre two completely different artists with totally different career directories imo. Madonna’s image was built around controversy and Taylor’s been playing it safe with her image for majority of her career. Not to mention Taylor started out in country and transitioned to pop. Madonna has always stayed within pop/dance. 

[JustHoran]

It's following Britney's more like it.

 

Madonna is hated by the GP and people find her to be a has-been and annoying. She continues to ruin her legacy.

 

Britney went through hard times and is STILL loved by most of the GP and fans, etc. and Britney can still get hits unlike Madonna.

[Dula Peep]

On 11/22/2022 at 11:44 PM, Protocol said:

 

Erotica = Reputation (following a period of intense backlash, icier sound mixed with deeply personal lyrics, confrontational public image, a decline from her prior peak)

I screamed at the delusion 

[TROJAN]

14 hours ago, mypaintoyou said:

I only know a couple Madonna songs 

but Taylor is her own league 

Perfectly said

[getback]

Taylor better avoid ha own American Life then

[slobro]

3 hours ago, JustHoran said:

It's following Britney's more like it.

 

Madonna is hated by the GP and people find her to be a has-been and annoying. She continues to ruin her legacy.

 

Britney went through hard times and is STILL loved by most of the GP and fans, etc. and Britney can still get hits unlike Madonna.

 Britney was a fad and not even in the conversation sis 

Edited November 25, 2022 by slobro

[MotoPapi]

7 hours ago, JustHoran said:

It's following Britney's more like it.

 

Madonna is hated by the GP and people find her to be a has-been and annoying. She continues to ruin her legacy.

 

Britney went through hard times and is STILL loved by most of the GP and fans, etc. and Britney can still get hits unlike Madonna.

Britney is seen as joke and she’s only in her 30’s. People see her as an adult-child.

[tiagol88]

On 11/23/2022 at 10:25 PM, Jjang said:

No - I literally just don't agree with your point that they invited the same level of disdain and push back from the masses. Sorry. I just think the mere analogy alone is insulting and trivializes what Madonna had endured. 

 

I think Taylor is a very wise woman and is surrounded by a great team of people whom help her navigate her public image brilliantly. She has a massive and loyal fan base and she uses that to the best of her advantage. That being said, there is no space IMO where her momentary mass hate ships and internet feuds are even plausibly comparable to the push back Madonna was getting back in her prime. Taylor's was far more arbitrary and has to do more with people naturally being annoyed with massive stars of her magnitude - her music's target audience mainly invites teenage angsty listeners and often times a lot of young girls and that in itself socially has been a textbook recipe for public ridiculing - from Elvis, to The Beatles to even Justin Bieber and Britney Spears. It is not uniquely a Taylor thing, she just happens to be the next big star that inherited this momentum and is something that is manageably resolved if you're smart and enduring - and she is on that front. And stuff like the TM debacle is obviously a testament to her power, but once again - this is not something that is unique to Taylor herself. Ed had his own TM debacle. Madonna could have crashed post dynamic pricing TM too had it been a thing back in 2001 when her Drowned World Tour received 30 million calls (enough to fill 1,000+ stadiums!) to purchase tickets. The same applies to Adele's insanely high tickets demand in 2015/16 (10+ million on line). You get the memo. 

 

Madonna's backlash, however, was largely associated with divisive parameters such as values, ideologies and taboo subjects which her mainstream act (Madonna) was essentially the canvas of. That is a vastly different category in terms of public disapproval. And Madonna "wanting" to be that sort of artist while Taylor not does not excuse the difference. Madonna was actively a cultural canon that constantly provoked relevant mainstream public discussions about unresolved real time taboos and topics. Whether that be a song about abortions at the heights of Reagan's 80's American conservatism, or a video about systemic racism and police brutality where she just happens to display (let alone make out with) Black Jesus and depict KKK burning crosses, or bring underground gay culture to the forefront with her music, visuals, tours and movies at the heights of the AIDS epidemic when just saying the word gay got you heat, let alone... giving out free condoms and poetry about safe sex in her CD booklets (Like a Prayer), displaying the first uncensored gay kiss on the big mainstream screen in Truth or Dare, which in itself was already an experimental project and probably the first unfiltered "reality TV" attempt as we know it, gender bending music videos and performances, an unprecedented ownership of her sexuality (not only in the SEX book, through her performances and really the entirety of her career being) even her interviews would be career threatening these days. Her interviews. She wasn't a PR trained image that played in accordance to limited parameters, she kept transforming what people come to expect of her every time she stepped out and notice how I haven't even mentioned her AL controversies with the video, tour and public statement because If i were here to open an inventory list of every time Madge severely divided public opinion about serious manners I'd be typing all day. The closest that Taylor comes to on that front is like, what? A scene in her already curated and self serving documentary when she cries about making a "Donald Trump is bad" tweet when it had already been long established as the status quo by then? Crying about not being nominated for AOTY? That's why it's so trivializing to hear someone compare her to Taylor Swift's career trajectory. It's just not the same category whatsoever and that's where the conversation ends - no ifs or buts. 

 

Thank yew /rant 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course this post was ignored and buried under posts of nonesense. ATRL can't stand the truth.

[Slayn]

On 11/23/2022 at 12:07 AM, blueberries said:

Taylor never flopped and is reaching new heights while Madonna already bombed and was a has-been in the 90s.

I hope you know that ALL of your opinions you spew onto this website are hot garbage.

 

OT: Two undisputed legends.

 

 

[Never Ending]

I can actually see this! Interesting 

 

Will definitely be looking forward to her next album aka her experimental and polarizing album!

[Zayka]

Madonna's cultural impact is like 100 bigger than anything Taylor did. Taylor is too vanilla and just plain. Don't you dare to compare Madonna to her, I will cut you

[MingYouToo]

I think that one user who mentioned cultural canon is completely right. At the end of the day Taylor Swift and Madonna are TWO completely different incomparable artists who are BOTH powerful and impactful in their own right.

 

Some users here in their journey to prove Taylor's worth dilute the raw and powerful backlash Madonna experienced during her prime. While she wasn't dominating her peers sales wise (though she was smashing still), she was pushing literal cultural NORMS and mores that made people genuinely uncomfortable, she was pushing an envelope that had NEVER been touched and opened it ALL the way. She is the reason Mariah, Britney, Beyonce, Taylor, Gaga, Ariana, Olivia all get to say and do the things they do! She had that Pepsi deal that got cut when it nationally aired because she was basically condemning the Vatican and they cut ties with her right away.  So much of the vibrancy that came from 80s pop all came from MADONNA. Taylor's 1989 wouldn't be the way it is now if it weren't for Madonna. Madonna's cultural impact comes from the fact that she came at a time when the monoculture peaked, EVERYONE followed and liked the same things, fashion was evolving yet universal, mainstream music remained homogenous. yet here she was, using her well founded momentum as a popstar to ELEVATE her work beyond music to make uncomfortable statements about abortion and single motherhood, underground gay ballroom culture that are encapsulated in catchy SMASH hits. Lets not devalue the fact that every era for Madonna's first 3 decades she's been both an ALBUM seller AND a HITMAKER while making some of the most crude and uncomfortable statements in pop culture that caused cultural shifts in perception. NO OTHER POPGIRL can do that for 20 years straight.

 

 

However, this isn't any reason to make Taylor Swift seem less powerful than she is. She truly is a FORCE of nature, dare I say commercially more savant than Madonna (this isn't to say Taylor is anywhere near the cultural monolith Madonna is, she's not nor will she ever be) and ANY other male or female popstar of the modern (80s - now) era. The mere fact that Taylor has sustained a level of DOMINANCE in numbers over her peers for 17 years straight across 3 decades, no breaks, and still TOWER over both her male and female peers commercially (something Madonna hasn't done since the Immaculate Collection) shows just how powerful of an anomaly she is. In regards to the Madonna comparison, I think its not fair to put her up against someone like Madonna who: a.) came at a time where popular culture operated almost like a monolith, to make change you have to be on top. b.) pushed singles with the intention of pushing a social agenda/narrative during her prime and c.) had no other female peers doing what she was able to do retrospectively. Where Taylor shines is in her business acumen. No other artist can hold a candle to the amount of industry wide business moves Taylor has done that has benefited artists and empowered them as much as her. Musically, while Taylor Swift as an artist is, while sonically very expansive, dare I say more experimental than any other mainstream female on her level bar Madonna with regards to how far the genres she commits to are (Tim McGraw to State of Grace to Ready For It... to evermore, country to rock to pop-rap to alternative), she doesn't have the ability to hold cultural conversations the way Madonna did. And that simply boils down to three things: a.) Madonna did all the conversing (she opened the doors to allow any popgirl to do their own thing) and b.) Taylor Swift comes at a time when anything and everything that can be done under the sun, HAS been done. and c.) Taylor Swift just is not the type of artist to be able to make rippling statements that send the media into a frenzy the way Madonna can.

 

All in all, these two artists are INCOMPARABLE. Both are up there in the pantheon of pop music for sure but both have done things that have impacted the world genuinely and come from different time periods, both legendary.

 

 

[Chris]

The way some Swifties (not all) just dismiss Madonna's record sales is completely astounding.

 

This woman has multiple albums that have literally sold 20 million worldwide.

 

Not streaming on Spotify or purchased on Itunes, but people literally bought her damn records.

 

So how the hell do some Swifties even think Taylor is going to surpass her?

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Taylor to death and her music but some of her fans are either ignorant, dumb, or dumb & ignorant.

 

Take your pick.

[slw84]

Girl...

[lcylcy]

On 11/23/2022 at 12:59 PM, WeFoundTrouble said:

How do we skip American Life and go straight to MDNA 

Fixed

[NEUTRON]

On 11/23/2022 at 2:02 PM, modeblock said:

Like a Prayer (song) > Taylor's discography 

 

So no.

End of discussion.

[Vixen Eyes]

On 11/23/2022 at 12:53 AM, Protocol said:

This is a comparison about career progression within their respective genres and aesthetic niches, it's not a direct comparison in terms of how they are artistically similar because they aren't. But in how their careers are progressing album to album it's basically the same.

i remember seeing someone say kesha is this generation's Cyndi Lauper

which also makes so much sense

[FreeXone]

Madonna sweetie…..I’m sorry.