base talk Taylor's career is following Madonna's down to a T (proof inside)

[Jjang]

Just now, Pop said:

 

Taylor Swift passed Madonna a LONG time ago in terms of longevity. A Loooong time ago

Basic math 

 

2006-2022 = 16 years 

1982 - 1998 = 16 years 

 

Madonna was releasing Ray of Light at this stage in her career and had been remarkably global all those years while Taylor only really started becoming a global force circa 1989 

[WildHeart]

15 minutes ago, Breathe On Moi said:

unfortunately, no matter how much she makes music for 16 years olds, you guys are NOT 16, so you don’t get to use this with your 30 year old selves. Just an FYI. 

I am 23 but thanks for your concern 

[PoisonedIvy]

14 minutes ago, Jjang said:

Tell me you're ignorant about Madonna's career and just pretend to get it on a surface level without telling me 

Sometimes it hurts me to try to reason with people on here.

 

Taylor does not evoke the same type of negative attention that Madonna did because they handled their careers vastly different. I am not saying Taylor’s backlash = Madonna’s, I am not saying they are the same types of backlash, I’m not saying they’re anything alike. 
 

Madonna was a provocateur who invited criticism and backlash. Taylor played the role of the good girl who  wanted to appear favorable to as many people as possible. I understand that. Nothing in my post implies otherwise.

 

So no, I am not ignorant of the huge cultural leaps Madonna chose to take with her art. I am not ignorant to the fact that entire institutions championed takedowns against her. I am aware of all of that.

 

Yet and still I stand here and say — Taylor is the female artist of today that people choose to express vitriol towards at a rate higher than expressed to her peers.
 

I’m merely stating that Taylor is the top of the pyramid when it comes to public division on the opinion of a female pop star nowadays, just as Madonna was in her day. These are for entirely different reasons, but that’s true and there’s no alternative answer to that question. 
 

TLDR — people love to hate Taylor, just like people loved to hate Madonna. Madonna intentionally brought on and embraced that hate, while Taylor fought back and against it. At the end of the day, they both overcame it. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by WeFoundTrouble

[EnigmaticAndroid]

Nope, she's more successful and consistently acclaimed than the former queen of poop 

[Pristine]

Taylor sweetie I'm so sorry

[JoeAg]

3 hours ago, dabunique said:

u want to make an ignorant comment and when people deservingly lash u then u wanna say leave me alone

 

no gurl,  take it

1. don’t call me gurl 

2. i’ve had a long f*cking week and am having some intense familial drama

3. it’s my opinion 

4. if you don’t have any constructive comments and are just gonna be redundant with the emojis, keep it to yourself

5. it’s not an ignorant comment. i never said Madonna wasn’t talented or a legend, i obviously think she’s all that. however, her lyrics don’t quite reach the peaks of Taylor’s lyrics for me. i’m sorry, that’s just my opinion

[Jjang]

1 hour ago, WeFoundTrouble said:

Sometimes it hurts me to try to reason with people on here.

 

Taylor does not evoke the same type of negative attention that Madonna did because they handled their careers vastly different. I am not saying Taylor’s backlash = Madonna’s, I am not saying they are the same types of backlash, I’m not saying they’re anything alike. 
 

Madonna was a provocateur who invited criticism and backlash. Taylor played the role of the good girl who  wanted to appear favorable to as many people as possible. I understand that. Nothing in my post implies otherwise.

 

So no, I am not ignorant of the huge cultural leaps Madonna chose to take with her art. I am not ignorant to the fact that entire institutions championed takedowns against her. I am aware of all of that.

 

Yet and still I stand here and say — Taylor is the female artist of today that people choose to express vitriol towards at a rate higher than expressed to her peers.
 

I’m merely stating that Taylor is the top of the pyramid when it comes to public division on the opinion of a female pop star nowadays, just as Madonna was in her day. These are for entirely different reasons, but that’s true and there’s no alternative answer to that question. 
 

TLDR — people love to hate Taylor, just like people loved to hate Madonna. Madonna intentionally brought on and embraced that hate, while Taylor fought back and against it. At the end of the day, they both overcame it. 

No - I literally just don't agree with your point that they invited the same level of disdain and push back from the masses. Sorry. I just think the mere analogy alone is insulting and trivializes what Madonna had endured. 

 

I think Taylor is a very wise woman and is surrounded by a great team of people whom help her navigate her public image brilliantly. She has a massive and loyal fan base and she uses that to the best of her advantage. That being said, there is no space IMO where her momentary mass hate ships and internet feuds are even plausibly comparable to the push back Madonna was getting back in her prime. Taylor's was far more arbitrary and has to do more with people naturally being annoyed with massive stars of her magnitude - her music's target audience mainly invites teenage angsty listeners and often times a lot of young girls and that in itself socially has been a textbook recipe for public ridiculing - from Elvis, to The Beatles to even Justin Bieber and Britney Spears. It is not uniquely a Taylor thing, she just happens to be the next big star that inherited this momentum and is something that is manageably resolved if you're smart and enduring - and she is on that front. And stuff like the TM debacle is obviously a testament to her power, but once again - this is not something that is unique to Taylor herself. Ed had his own TM debacle. Madonna could have crashed post dynamic pricing TM too had it been a thing back in 2001 when her Drowned World Tour received 30 million calls (enough to fill 1,000+ stadiums!) to purchase tickets. The same applies to Adele's insanely high tickets demand in 2015/16 (10+ million on line). You get the memo. 

 

Madonna's backlash, however, was largely associated with divisive parameters such as values, ideologies and taboo subjects which her mainstream act (Madonna) was essentially the canvas of. That is a vastly different category in terms of public disapproval. And Madonna "wanting" to be that sort of artist while Taylor not does not excuse the difference. Madonna was actively a cultural canon that constantly provoked relevant mainstream public discussions about unresolved real time taboos and topics. Whether that be a song about abortions at the heights of Reagan's 80's American conservatism, or a video about systemic racism and police brutality where she just happens to display (let alone make out with) Black Jesus and depict KKK burning crosses, or bring underground gay culture to the forefront with her music, visuals, tours and movies at the heights of the AIDS epidemic when just saying the word gay got you heat, let alone... giving out free condoms and poetry about safe sex in her CD booklets (Like a Prayer), displaying the first uncensored gay kiss on the big mainstream screen in Truth or Dare, which in itself was already an experimental project and probably the first unfiltered "reality TV" attempt as we know it, gender bending music videos and performances, an unprecedented ownership of her sexuality (not only in the SEX book, through her performances and really the entirety of her career being) even her interviews would be career threatening these days. Her interviews. She wasn't a PR trained image that played in accordance to limited parameters, she kept transforming what people come to expect of her every time she stepped out and notice how I haven't even mentioned her AL controversies with the video, tour and public statement because If i were here to open an inventory list of every time Madge severely divided public opinion about serious manners I'd be typing all day. The closest that Taylor comes to on that front is like, what? A scene in her already curated and self serving documentary when she cries about making a "Donald Trump is bad" tweet when it had already been long established as the status quo by then? Crying about not being nominated for AOTY? That's why it's so trivializing to hear someone compare her to Taylor Swift's career trajectory. It's just not the same category whatsoever and that's where the conversation ends - no ifs or buts. 

 

Thank yew /rant 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Jjang

[Bloodflowers.]

16 hours ago, Protocol said:

Taylor's version of Confessions would actually be country-pop Shania Twain style. What Confessions represents is a return to her roots (dance-pop for Madonna and country-pop for Taylor) that pays homage to the style that was popular in years before her career rose (70s disco for Madonna, late 90s country-pop for Taylor).

 

Oh wow, oh wow, I would be here for Taylor's Ka-Ching and Juanita!

 

[Achilles.]

It’s accurate and I’ve been making this exact comparison for years.

[Orsay]

even in terms of sales she's no where close

[Erreur2 La Nature]

I used to think Little Monsters were the most delusional fanbase but not anymore...  Taylor's fans are on a whole new level

[selena_lavigne]

where is the sex book?

[Chris]

These Taylor and Madonna threads.

 

[Chris]

17 hours ago, JoeAg said:

’m sorry and i love Madonna but she has never written a song as lyrically stunning as Mirrorball or as fascinatingly detail-rich as All Too Well or as relatably self-deprecating and witty as Anti-Hero/Blank Space/Champagne Problems, etc.

Jesus Christ.

 

What the hell did I just read?

 

Yikes.

[Chris]

Some of the Swifties have now gone too far.

 

How in the hell do you type out that Madonna of ALL people has not written a song "as good" as one of Taylor's?

 

 

Like, what?

 

 

I have never seen such.........

 

[WildHeart]

1 hour ago, Jjang said:

this is not something that is unique to Taylor herself. Ed had his own TM debacle. Madonna could have crashed post dynamic pricing TM too had it been a thing back in 2001 when her Drowned World Tour received 30 million calls (enough to fill 1,000+ stadiums!) to purchase tickets. The same applies to Adele's insanely high tickets demand in 2015/16 (10+ million on line). You get the memo

14M unique people trying to buy tickets for a tour (mind you, in a pre-sale too) IS something unique and never happened before. 

 

As you said, the only other artist who came close to that was Adele after the second biggest era of all time + biggest debut in history, with 

10M people in line during a *general* sale. (and no, 30M calls are not the same since you don't even know the unique number and i believe it's a global number compared to Taylor and Adele's).

 

As Ticketmaster stated, Taylor's situation was historic and the biggest one in the touring history. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Artistofthedecade

[Madonno]

1 hour ago, Artistofthedecade said:

 

 

As Ticketmaster stated, Taylor's situation was historic and the biggest one in the touring history. 

And Madonna broke several records before that. So?

Taylor is touring because of Masonna historical and monumental tour that shaped what we can enjoy nowadays: Bolnde Ambition Tour.

[chiliam]

Madonna career is giving gimmicks acter gimmicks. She is the chameleon of pop. But the music itself is just good not match with her status. The recurrent stream tell it all.

[JoeAg]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

Jesus Christ.

 

What the hell did I just read?

 

Yikes.

my opinion

[Chris]

34 minutes ago, chiliam said:

Madonna career is giving gimmicks acter gimmicks. She is the chameleon of pop. But the music itself is just good not match with her status. The recurrent stream tell it all.

You can barely even type properly and have the nerve to speak about someone's career?

 

 

I need to log off not only for the day but probably for the entire week.

[chiliam]

30 minutes ago, Chris said:

You can barely even type properly and have the nerve to speak about someone's career?

 

 

I need to log off not only for the day but probably for the entire week.

Ok bye

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by chiliam

[brainmaniac]

23 hours ago, Protocol said:

 

Madonna = Taylor Swift (cute self-titled mixtape with a couple of cute hits, becomes huge in the long-run)

 

Like a Virgin = Fearless (huge breakout smash Diamond-certified album with iconic hits on it)

 

True Blue = Speak Now (continues her success and solidifies her fanbase as one of the top female artists of the day)

 

Like a Prayer = Red (expands her sound while continuing her success, considered her best album by most critics)

 

"Vogue"/'The Immaculate Collection'/'Truth or Dare'/Blond Ambition Tour period = 1989 (the period of her absolute peak, the undisputed reigning Queen of Pop, HBIC of the entertainment industry, smash after smash)

 

Erotica = Reputation (following a period of intense backlash, icier sound mixed with deeply personal lyrics, confrontational public image, a decline from her prior peak)

 

Bedtime Stories = Lover (pivots from the last record with safer, warmer sound and image, trend-chasing producers i.e. Babyface for Madonna and Louis Bell for Taylor, produces one of her most memorable hit ballads i.e. "Take a Bow" for M and "Lover" for Taylor)

 

Ray of Light = Folklore + Evermore (radical departure in sound from her previous work drawing from more underground producers and genres i.e. Orbit for Madonna and Dessner for Taylor, esoteric and pensive lyrics, more subdued, ambient sound, largely considered her most ambitious album and acclaimed by critics, gets her a lot more respect from the public and expands her audience, total image reinvention, quickly produces copycats as the producer she chose become mainstream i.e. everyone started working with William Orbit after ROL, now everyone is working with Aaron Dessner when before Folklore zero bodies were checking for him)

 

Music = Midnights (the album that capitalizes on the previous respect gained from the last LP with a more mainstream-friendly sound, her highest first week sales ever, lead single is a huge global #1 smash and her biggest hit in almost a decade, this is the era during which she truly now feels like the QUEEN OF POP, highly respected by all and her success, longevity and ability to reinvent are now undeniable)

 

 

 

This means her next album will be her American Life  

 

 

 

Taylor skipped the flops of Erotica and Bedtime Stories though 

And let’s hope she doesn’t have an American Life kind of flop next too 

[BowWow]

6 hours ago, Jjang said:

No - I literally just don't agree with your point that they invited the same level of disdain and push back from the masses. Sorry. I just think the mere analogy alone is insulting and trivializes what Madonna had endured. 

 

I think Taylor is a very wise woman and is surrounded by a great team of people whom help her navigate her public image brilliantly. She has a massive and loyal fan base and she uses that to the best of her advantage. That being said, there is no space IMO where her momentary mass hate ships and internet feuds are even plausibly comparable to the push back Madonna was getting back in her prime. Taylor's was far more arbitrary and has to do more with people naturally being annoyed with massive stars of her magnitude - her music's target audience mainly invites teenage angsty listeners and often times a lot of young girls and that in itself socially has been a textbook recipe for public ridiculing - from Elvis, to The Beatles to even Justin Bieber and Britney Spears. It is not uniquely a Taylor thing, she just happens to be the next big star that inherited this momentum and is something that is manageably resolved if you're smart and enduring - and she is on that front. And stuff like the TM debacle is obviously a testament to her power, but once again - this is not something that is unique to Taylor herself. Ed had his own TM debacle. Madonna could have crashed post dynamic pricing TM too had it been a thing back in 2001 when her Drowned World Tour received 30 million calls (enough to fill 1,000+ stadiums!) to purchase tickets. The same applies to Adele's insanely high tickets demand in 2015/16 (10+ million on line). You get the memo. 

 

Madonna's backlash, however, was largely associated with divisive parameters such as values, ideologies and taboo subjects which her mainstream act (Madonna) was essentially the canvas of. That is a vastly different category in terms of public disapproval. And Madonna "wanting" to be that sort of artist while Taylor not does not excuse the difference. Madonna was actively a cultural canon that constantly provoked relevant mainstream public discussions about unresolved real time taboos and topics. Whether that be a song about abortions at the heights of Reagan's 80's American conservatism, or a video about systemic racism and police brutality where she just happens to display (let alone make out with) Black Jesus and depict KKK burning crosses, or bring underground gay culture to the forefront with her music, visuals, tours and movies at the heights of the AIDS epidemic when just saying the word gay got you heat, let alone... giving out free condoms and poetry about safe sex in her CD booklets (Like a Prayer), displaying the first uncensored gay kiss on the big mainstream screen in Truth or Dare, which in itself was already an experimental project and probably the first unfiltered "reality TV" attempt as we know it, gender bending music videos and performances, an unprecedented ownership of her sexuality (not only in the SEX book, through her performances and really the entirety of her career being) even her interviews would be career threatening these days. Her interviews. She wasn't a PR trained image that played in accordance to limited parameters, she kept transforming what people come to expect of her every time she stepped out and notice how I haven't even mentioned her AL controversies with the video, tour and public statement because If i were here to open an inventory list of every time Madge severely divided public opinion about serious manners I'd be typing all day. The closest that Taylor comes to on that front is like, what? A scene in her already curated and self serving documentary when she cries about making a "Donald Trump is bad" tweet when it had already been long established as the status quo by then? Crying about not being nominated for AOTY? That's why it's so trivializing to hear someone compare her to Taylor Swift's career trajectory. It's just not the same category whatsoever and that's where the conversation ends - no ifs or buts. 

 

Thank yew /rant 

 

 

 

 

 

[sasashite]

Taylor's more successful and her music is aging well. Also her audience is WAY more bigger than Madonna's. She's on her own league.

[TROJAN]

1 hour ago, sasashite said:

Taylor's more successful and her music is aging well. Also her audience is WAY more bigger than Madonna's. She's on her own league.

This. Madonna is a nobody