celeb news Pitchfork: "thank you Beyoncé"

[Headlock]

50 minutes ago, Bloodflowers. said:

 

This thread is about Beyonce, stop bringing up white mediocrity in a thread about Bey. It's interesting out of all posts and discussions going in here, you bring my quick little part in a post pointing out a Swiftie's hypocrisy dragging Bey for something their own fave benefits. I don't want to discuss your fave in a thread about Beyonce getting acclaim for her VOCALS and versatility. If you don't have anything to add about THAT, then stop responding on an off-topic rant and bringing a white woman in a thread that has nothing to do with her and whitewashing this thread from that conversation. I don't want to hear anything from you, you came here and said nothing about Bey but see one throwaway mention and is throwing a fit over it. Stop inserting a conversation about your dull fave in a thread about Beyonce's rave acclaim. Jesus ******* Christ.

 

You brought her up, the absolute worms 

[gatito]

yes BEYONCÉ yes ACCLAIM

COPE

[Bloodflowers.]

1 hour ago, Headlock said:

You brought her up, the absolute worms 

 

And you made everything about her (as usual) over a one small irrelevant quick clapback sentance pointing out hypocrisy. Focus on BEYONCE, the main discussion or get out, this topic is about SINGERS who can sing!

 

[superben]

Pitchfork has been licking Bey's ass since forever. Ain't nothing new  

They would not care how horrendous it is. They would praise whatever she releases.

[swissman]

4 hours ago, Mobility Mary said:

I couldn't care less about Whitney or Celine and their legendary statuses. Songwriting is a huge, if not the main aspect, for a lot of people when it comes to deciding who they'll listen to. That doesn't mean you don't get to decide if you will listen to someone who doesn't write their own songs, but I don't see why people wouldn't criticise someone for not doing if that's what they care about. Beyonce could release a spectacular album and I still wouldn't listen to it cause seing 70 writers on it automatically makes me dislike it

What you're arguing for is a sort of snobbishness that suggests evaluating music is based on principle, not actual, tangible musical output. Criticizing someone for not writing their own music presumes quality or respectability is relative to having a limited amount of credits and that the actual talents of the singer whose performance can make or break a song doesn't count.

 

Behind-the-scenes details are trivia. They may lead to a greater appreciation of the work or the artist, but as for evaluating the work itself, it's generally not the factor that most people use tell if a musical work is good or not.

 

What you're doing is just admitting bias, and it's a bit weird in the context of Beyoncé because she is in fact one of the most involved pop artists in her work, having established and leading her own production company that handles everything from music to video and has been cited time and time again by collaborators for how detailed and participatory she is in the creation process. Whether or not she's single-handedly writing her songs, the creative process is owned by her, and that's why she's able to have a level of consistency in her music that you don't see from singers who are delivered lyrics and productions to sing over.

 

And this idea that "70" writers is some terrible thing also forgets that different artists have different styles and working processes. Some may just work with 3-5 writers for one album and leave it at that. Beyoncé has always been about collaboration. She started in a girl-group after all. And she's also quite generous in the studio with credits. That's why even her former-assistant/cousin Angie has several songwriting credits for the time she was assisting Beyoncé. She was in the studio, she suggested something, it went into the final, and thus she was credited. Beyoncé also routinely gives producers a songwriting credit even if they didn't write the lyrics or the melody (Jumpin' Jumpin' is a good example of that). And on top of that, if she samples a song, even if it's just the drumline that gets used, everyone credited on the original song gets added to the credits. This can greatly inflate the actual amount of people who contributed to the final song.

 

But you see at the end of the day a song is as good as it sounds, not as good as the conciseness of its writing credits.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by swissman

[1989]

This review is ridiculously extra for no reason.  It’s a decent song, a bit mediocre. Will still be interesting to hear the album, though. 

[Mobility Mary]

49 minutes ago, swissman said:

What you're arguing for is a sort of snobbishness that suggests evaluating music is based on principle, not actual, tangible musical output. Criticizing someone for not writing their own music presumes quality or respectability is relative to having a limited amount of credits and that the actual talents of the singer whose performance can make or break a song doesn't count.

 

Behind-the-scenes details are trivia. They may lead to a greater appreciation of the work or the artist, but as for evaluating the work itself, it's generally not the factor that most people use tell if a musical work is good or not.

 

What you're doing is just admitting bias, and it's a bit weird in the context of Beyoncé because she is in fact one of the most involved pop artists in her work, having established and leading her own production company that handles everything from music to video and has been cited time and time again by collaborators for how detailed and participatory she is in the creation process. Whether or not she's single-handedly writing her songs, the creative process is owned by her, and that's why she's able to have a level of consistency in her music that you don't see from singers who are delivered lyrics and productions to sing over.

 

And this idea that "70" writers is some terrible thing also forgets that different artists have different styles and working processes. Some may just work with 3-5 writers for one album and leave it at that. Beyoncé has always been about collaboration. She started in a girl-group after all. And she's also quite generous in the studio with credits. That's why even her former-assistant/cousin Angie has several songwriting credits for the time she was assisting Beyoncé. She was in the studio, she suggested something, it went into the final, and thus she was credited. Beyoncé also routinely gives producers a songwriting credit even if they didn't write the lyrics or the melody (Jumpin' Jumpin' is a good example of that). And on top of that, if she samples a song, even if it's just the drumline that gets used, everyone credited on the original song gets added to the credits. This can greatly inflate the actual amount of people who contributed to the final song.

 

But you see at the end of the day a song is as good as it sounds, not as good as the conciseness of its writing credits.

 

 

It's not about principal, it's about talent. Beyonce doesn't have a songwriting talent and I really don't understand why is it so hard for some people to imagine someone caring for that specific talent. I've seen plenty of Beyonce fans dragging women they don't consider to be good vocalists, but somehow it is snobbish to care about someone's songwriting. Also having your personal preferences when it comes to art is not snobbish in the slightest if you're not passing off your opinion as the objective truth and if you're not trying to force people to have the same taste as you.

[Headlock]

2 hours ago, Bloodflowers. said:

 

And you made everything about her (as usual) over a one small irrelevant quick clapback sentance pointing out hypocrisy. Focus on BEYONCE, the main discussion or get out, this topic is about SINGERS who can sing!

 

It wasn't a ~clapback~ because it wasn't true, hence my "one quick clapback sentence" 

[swissman]

4 minutes ago, Mobility Mary said:

It's not about principal, it's about talent. Beyonce doesn't have a songwriting talent and I really don't understand why is it so hard for some people to imagine someone caring for that specific talent. I've seen plenty of Beyonce fans dragging women they don't consider to be good vocalists, but somehow it is snobbish to care about someone's songwriting. Also having your personal preferences when it comes to art is not snobbish in the slightest if you're not passing off your opinion as the objective truth and if you're not trying to force people to have the same taste as you.

It's fine if people care about songwriting. No one is saying one cannot and it is indeed an impressive talent. But declaring outright that you won't even listen to an album that doesn't have a very limited amount of writers even if it is "spectacular" is indeed a snobbish way to go about consuming media. That's not an opinion, that's a decisive stance based solely on principle, not your own personal musical tastes, because there is no way to listen to a song and automatically know if a singer wrote it themselves unless you know about the artist beforehand and are making an assumption.

 

The fact is you can care about songwriting and still have an open mind to enjoy a song/album that has many contributors. If you do not appreciate it as another albums, okay, that's your opinion, but to not even listen to it is indeed indicative of a certain level of snobbery.

 

As for people dragging those they don't consider good vocalists, let's remember that by profession these artists are called "singers". Some may include the word "-songwriter" at the end of that, but singing is still the main part of the title. In the history of popular music, only in the last half of the last century has it been common to write the songs you perform and even today that is not an integral expectation. So while it may appear rude or overly judgemental to nitpick someone's vocals, it's not inherently snobby to ask that a singer be able to sing. In some cases, like Bob Dylan, having big vocals isn't required, as he delivers his message just as fine the way he sings. But he having written his own songs doesn't mean his work is inherently better or more valuable than someone like Aretha Franklin who mostly covers songs or has them written for her.

 

4 minutes ago, Mobility Mary said:

Beyonce doesn't have a songwriting talent

This is a lie. If you're not versed in the specifics of her career don't assume you know it. She's written entire songs with input added later (which apparently doesn't count when she does that, so why should it count when others do it with her self-written songs). She's written bridges, verses, melodies, lines, etc. She may not be the prolific solo-songwriter you wish her to be, but that does not mean she does not have a songwriting talent.

[i spit on haters]

Listened to the single yesterday. I don't hate it but I don't love it, either. It does (for me) get better with each listen but it's also not a song that I'll gravitate to for multiple listens. Does sound better in the car, though. A great video will elevate the song, for sure.  

[Kool_Aid_King]

The pathetic losers in here always pressed about the QUEEN. The power she has over some of you  

 

All of a sudden y'all are scholars and literary analysts, give me a break.   

--

Obviously there's some grandiose comparisons but I'm glad this writer's OPINION was approved by a revered critic site.

[Bayouboy]

I’m glad the song is getting praise and good feed back from fans but she provided us better. I gave up on expecting to give us more bday vibes.

[KKKIMO92]

No, thank you Next. With Beyoncé, the bar should be higher, not lower. 

[Protocol]

2 hours ago, 1989 said:

This review is ridiculously extra for no reason.  It’s a decent song, a bit mediocre. Will still be interesting to hear the album, though. 

Not for no reason, Beyonce just did a high profile Vogue cover. Vogue is owned by NY-based publishing giant Conde Nast, which also owns Pitchfork. The fact that the review is totally sycophantic but they didn't give it Best New Music speaks volumes. I believe BNM is based on votes and consensus among the critics, and they obviously didn't like it enough to give it that distinction, but the review itself was probably ordered to be really positive from the top. It would not surprise me if it was a requisite for her to grant them the Vogue UK cover and interview. She hasn't done many real interviews in the last decade so it's a huge win for them.

 

That said, I'm super excited for the album, I just feel like she hasn't picked good lead singles since the IASF era. Imagine judging 4 from Run the World. We had no idea it was going to be a great album.

[NausAllien]

2 hours ago, Mobility Mary said:

It's not about principal, it's about talent. Beyonce doesn't have a songwriting talent and I really don't understand why is it so hard for some people to imagine someone caring for that specific talent. I've seen plenty of Beyonce fans dragging women they don't consider to be good vocalists, but somehow it is snobbish to care about someone's songwriting. Also having your personal preferences when it comes to art is not snobbish in the slightest if you're not passing off your opinion as the objective truth and if you're not trying to force people to have the same taste as you.

The sad thing is that I think Beyoncé DOES have songwriting talent. She proved as much with Survivor and Dangerously in Love, for which she wrote a lot of lyrics (+ the usual harmonies and vocal arrangements). I'm disappointed she gave up after DIL/DF and decided to have other people write songs for her, she'd change a word or two and get a writing credit for it.

 

Smash/Smack Into You is a perfect example of this:

 

 

 

The songs are almost identical, except she changed the word "smack" for "smash" and she got a credit for it. Tricky and The-Dream are the ONLY writers of "Smack Into You" but changing a word was enough for Bey to get a writing credit? It may technically be legal but it's BS!

 

It's sad because I can see how much potential she has as a songwriter. She shows her talent in songs she's written but never released, which we got to hear snippets of in documentaries, such as "Heartbeat" about her miscarriage. But for some reason she feels insecure about her writing talent and prefers to have this massive writing camps rather than challenge herself. And it's weird, because she challenges herself vocally, performance-wise, stylistically, etc, but she's content with having and ARMY of writers doing the job for her?

 

[Jagger]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:47 PM, sugarysunflower said:

Julienne needs to take a step outside her block. The devotions thesis and highest heavenly praises for an nice, okay song. It's comparable to liturgy at this point.

 

• Exhibit A: "Beyoncé as an SSRI , her attempt to assuage widespread depression and crushing stress"

 

• Exhibit B: "In the first verse alone, she encapsulates the Great Resignation, the Great Unionization, and quarantine insomnia" UMMM....

 

• Exhibit C: " In the absence of a national memorial for those lost to COVID-19, celebrating life with this exact oeuvre is both haunting and comes with a sense of deliverance déjà vu. [...] is a palimpsest, its evocations and sounds layered deep in the sense memories of club heads." 

 

• Exhibit D: "it positions Beyoncé as a diva entering her Whitney Greatest Hits era" 

 

This is not fumes. This is calling out grandiose delusions. 

MTE  it's really not that deep. Beyoncé would never even have the talent to purposely make statements like this 

 

I love the song but this article is so cringe 

[Jagger]

Ew I didn't even realize the lyric about masking  how corny is that

 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Jagger

[wanderlust]

not with those lyrics and that cheap sample. if anyone else mainstream released this (perhaps with the exception of ariana) they wouldve dragged the **** out of it.

[*-ChriZ-*]

13 minutes ago, wanderlust said:

not with those lyrics and that cheap sample. if anyone else mainstream released this (perhaps with the exception of ariana) they wouldve dragged the **** out of it.

They wouldnt have -> see Drakes review

[Jormungand]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:47 PM, sugarysunflower said:

Julienne needs to take a step outside her block. The devotions thesis and highest heavenly praises for an nice, okay song. It's comparable to liturgy at this point.

 

• Exhibit A: "Beyoncé as an SSRI , her attempt to assuage widespread depression and crushing stress"

 

• Exhibit B: "In the first verse alone, she encapsulates the Great Resignation, the Great Unionization, and quarantine insomnia" UMMM....

 

• Exhibit C: " In the absence of a national memorial for those lost to COVID-19, celebrating life with this exact oeuvre is both haunting and comes with a sense of deliverance déjà vu. [...] is a palimpsest, its evocations and sounds layered deep in the sense memories of club heads." 

 

• Exhibit D: "it positions Beyoncé as a diva entering her Whitney Greatest Hits era" 

 

This is not fumes. This is calling out grandiose delusions. 

This. 

 

For me it's a bop, but it's not anything thought provoking because it doesn't need to be. I think the visuals (hopefully) will elevate this song to where it needs to be. 

[Phaunzie]

I am confused, the song as mild as one can get. I literally just thought listening to it, ok and it was over. This random optimism tells me that the album is gonna get a 8+ or 10  when it releases. 

[swissman]

The article may have rounded up in regards to assuming Beyoncé's direct intentions but the writer also didn't lie about the content of the song. I would expect everyone who has an issue when the song is praised to have the same response when others deride the song for having the same supposed intentions. Somehow I doubt they will though.

[Jude]

The song is an earworm.

[LosingHimWasBlue]

On 6/21/2022 at 11:25 PM, Donquizote said:

The fact they overanalyzed the lyrics when in fact it is not that deep and just a trashy songwriting

[momal]

The song is terrible though.