discussion Russian Sanctions Backfire: NATO Countries Hurt More By Inflation As Result

[Brishka]

6 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

Meanwhile Russians are paying $15 for a literal cube of butter, fighting each other over sugar in supermarkets, hoarding tampons, and are capped at how much money they can transfer into foreign currency. You Russian shills on this website are the lowest of the low

They are absolute scum. You get banned on this website for saying some mildly insensitive stuff, but they are allowed to create threads to shill for a terrorist state committing a genocide against Ukrainians (which has been officially recognized by Canada, the Czech Republic, Ireland and other countries). ATRL has also failed to ban a certain user who continues to deny the Uyghur genocide. The far-left continues to get a pass on this website for some reason.  

[Communion]

10 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

No one is defending Russia. You're angry that people are calling out the bad math in investing billions into Ukraine's conflict *while also not ensuring OPEC nations would off-set the impact it'd have on energy and gas as a global market*.

 

Biden asked to meet with the crown prince of KSA to discuss energy and was laughed at and publicly insulted. 

 

As a leftist, I can easily get behind prioritizing what is morally right over what are quick solutions centered around improving election odds. It's just incredibly funny that centrists like Biden make electability and the act of winning elections their whole schtick yet have performed a calculus thus far so bad and awful that they're set to help enable 8 years of Republican rule come 2024. 

 

I would probably even agree with you that higher gas prices are worth supporting an oppressed people; even if we agree on that though, that doesn't address Biden's failure to do pretty basic policies to help.cushion the hit such realities the sanctions on Russian gas would cause. He wants us to "take our medicine" but at the end of the day most Americans simply won't accept that as a norm of life. That's just the facts. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Communion

[ClashAndBurn]

8 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

Meanwhile Russians are paying $15 for a literal cube of butter, fighting each other over sugar in supermarkets, hoarding tampons, and are capped at how much money they can transfer into foreign currency. You Russian shills on this website are the lowest of the low

Ukraine is losing in the Eastern front and will probably lose the entirety of its war effort by this time next year once Biden’s opposition party takes control of Congress and cuts off the endless supply of funding and weapons at Trump’s behest. You realize this, right?

[ZIVERT]

Just now, Communion said:

No one is defending Russia. You're angry that people are calling out the bad math in investing billions into Ukraine's conflict *while also not ensuring OPEC nations would off-set the impact it'd have on energy and gas as a global market*.

 

Biden asked to meet with the crown prince of KSA to discuss energy and was laughed at and publicly insulted. 

 

As a leftist, I can easily get behind prioritizing what is morally right over what are quick solutions centered around improving election odds. It's just incredibly funny that centrists like Biden make electability and the act of winning elections their whole schtick yet have performed a calculus thus far so bad and awful that they're set to help enable 8 years of Republican rule come 2024. 

What’s even crazier is that the world is focusing on combatting a genocide and you’re focusing on a crusade against centrists and domestic politics  

[ZIVERT]

2 minutes ago, Brishka said:

They are absolute scum. You get banned on this website for saying some mildly insensitive stuff, but they are allowed to create threads to shill for a terrorist state committing a genocide against Ukrainians (which has been officially recognized by Canada, the Czech Republic, Ireland and other countries). ATRL has also failed to ban a certain user who continues to deny the Uyghur genocide. The far-left continues to get a pass on this website for some reason.  

There’s no point in engaging with them, considering they’ve also denied the Holodomor in the past and genuinely believed that the Donbas had a legitimate separatist movement and weren’t being held hostage by Russian proxy soldiers. They want to see Ukraine fall to relive some Soviet Union worker’s paradise wet dream that no former Soviet country wants any part of. Disgusting romanticism, but alas it’s allowed on this site I guess 

[ClashAndBurn]

Anyway, the title refers more to NATO countries being more hurt by inflation with the sanctions than they would be without them, and to the fact that they’ve basically done nothing to deter Putin’s war effort.

 

The implication is NOT that NATO countries are suffering more than Russia. If you want to blame anything, blame the character-limited thread titles for it not being any clearer than that.

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

What’s even crazier is that the world is focusing on-

No, most Americans do not prioritize global affairs. I'm sorry. I can even disagree but you not wanting to accept that reality won't change. 

 

Most Americans are focused on those gas prices and the price for a gallon of milk. You can grandstand and posture about the situation of the Ukrainian people but Ukraine's not going to have any foreign aid or assistance from America if Trump wins in 2024 due to the ****-up's by Biden people are trying to reverse so 

[Karla Cabello]

 

[ZIVERT]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

No, most Americans do not prioritize global affairs. I'm sorry. I can even disagree but you not wanting to accept that reality won't change. 

 

Most Americans are focused on those gas prices and the price for a gallon of milk. You can grandstand and posture about the situation of the Ukrainian people but Ukraine's not going to have any foreign aid or assistance from America if Trump wins in 2024 due to the ****-up's by Biden people are trying to reverse so 

Right, so we should trust your side instead, and just give up now. Understood ATRL user Communion 

Edited June 15, 2022 by ZIVERT

[CaptainMusic]

Every President would’ve done the same sanctions, it was a coordinated effort from western leaders. There was no way to predict exactly how it would affect Russia but some show of force needed to be made so the stance of opposition is clear without going to war.

 

But sure, let’s laugh at “Biden’s failure” just to make a point while Ukrainian civilians are being murdered daily.

[wastedpotential]

28 minutes ago, Brando said:

then it will not stop and the money America will have to spend on a wider war would be a lot more mouthwatering

Not to mention that the performance of the Russian army in the conflict with Ukraine has been rather... substandard, so the minute they move into a NATO country and start facing off against well funded and well armed forces (namely American soldiers), the Russians might just turn to nukes to level the playing field 

[Communion]

10 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

Right, so we should trust your side instead, and just give up now. Understood ATRL user Communion 

I'm not sure you have the capacity to understand what's being said. 

 

No one in America is emotionally invested in Ukraine. And I say that not to be cruel. I say that to enlighten you to the fact that the people you're demanding be engaged in Ukraine are currently not. The 2022 midterms will not be defined by Ukraine, which means we got to find a solution beyond *Ukraine flag emoji* as an answer to Americans' woes. 

 

A CNN poll from May has only 5% of Americans saying foreign policy / the war in Ukraine is the most important issue for them. 60%+ say inflation and the economy. 

 

So if your interests are in maintaining aid sent to Ukraine, you should probably be supporting the people trying to make sure Blue Guy stops sucking ass or else you're going to get Red Guy in office. Is that simple enough to get?

 

"Politics is transactional, not ideological" is not some clever idea when you (the Dems) are on the disadvantaged side of the transaction.  

Edited June 15, 2022 by Communion

[Blue Jeans]

31 minutes ago, Brando said:

Supporting Ukraine is like an investment. Russia should not be allowed to succeed because then it will not stop and the money America will have to spend on a wider war would be a lot more mouthwatering. Think of it as a discount, not as money robbed from you 

This!

We have to pick the lesser of the “evils”. If the West lets Russia win, Putin will be fearless and the next goal would be NATO Baltic states

[Brishka]

14 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

There’s no point in engaging with them, considering they’ve also denied the Holodomor in the past and genuinely believed that the Donbas had a legitimate separatist movement and weren’t being held hostage by Russian proxy soldiers. They want to see Ukraine fall to relive some Soviet Union worker’s paradise wet dream that no former Soviet country wants any part of. Disgusting romanticism, but alas it’s allowed on this site I guess 

You are right. Luckily, far-left and the far-right extremists represent only a small portion of the American society, and the vast majority of Americans support arming Ukraine, according to the most recent polls. By engaging with extremists, you are only amplifying their fringe conspiracy theories. 

However, I don't get why communism/rashism apologists still get a free pass on ATRL. 

[ZIVERT]

2 minutes ago, Brishka said:

You are right. Luckily, far-left and the far-right extremists represent only a small portion of the American society, and the vast majority of Americans support arming Ukraine, according to the most recent polls. By engaging with extremists, you are only amplifying their fringe conspiracy theories. 

However, I don't get why communism/rashism apologists still get a free pass on ATRL. 

це майже смішно – він серйозно вважає, що Американцям байдуже до України  @nasa @Flomik подивіться сістерз  

[Brando]

36 minutes ago, Communion said:

This is a fallacy because America is not indebted to anyone to involve themselves in matters that are simply not their business. 

 

Diplomacy and negotiations were the only viable solution and now Dems will face the burden of their adventurism at home because "Putin's Price Hike" is not effective sloganeering to most Americans. 

I mean if the world was black and white then ye sure. But there's a thing called geopolitics (and also many other things) that contribute to actions of states 

31 minutes ago, Communion said:

What are you confused on?

The goal of the sanctions was to hurt Russian corporations- that failed. 

Now they are only hurting not only Russian citizens but citizens everywhere due to gas and energy being a global market. 

Biden hurt himself because he is now going to be voted out by a populace upset that they can't afford to drive to work anymore. 

You can try to spin it as 4d chess or whatever makes you feel better, but if the goal of elected officials is to make sure they remain electable and stay in office, this adventurism into a conflict with Russia has failed spectacularly. Biden's approvals have tanked and his own ideology is pissing off his base. 

 

Whatever you believe America has helped achieve in Ukraine won't matter as Trump is going to have won in 2024 and help undo all of it. 

 

31 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

The sanctions were promised to be aimed at oligarchs and not the civilians who have nothing to do with Putin’s war. Not only are Putin and his oligarchs completely fine, but by hurting Russian civilians it is creating a rally-around-the-flag effect, hardening Putin’s domestic support while NATO countries’ ruling parties are suffering and losing support. In the US, for example, Biden’s party is about to be routed in a historic midterm loss in less than 5 months as inflation has caused gas prices to go up by more than double.

In a perfect world yes, but the elite are always fine despite the harshest sanctions, so let's not act brand new as if this is the first time sanctions are hurting ordinary people and not the rich. 

 

Also fyi 17,000 millionaires left Russia since the start of the invasion. That's a lot of money flooding from Russia. Russia is badly damaged from all this and it cannot win the war of attrition. The only way it can win is if vocal (but unaware) people like you will keep doing free cheerleading for it in the west 

[ClashAndBurn]

Just now, Brando said:

I mean if the world was black and white then ye sure. But there's a thing called geopolitics (and also many other things) that contribute to actions of states 

 

In a perfect world yes, but the elite are always fine despite the harshest sanctions, so let's not act brand new as if this is the first time sanctions are hurting ordinary people and not the rich. 

 

Also fyi 17,000 millionaires left Russia since the start of the invasion. That's a lot of money flooding from Russia. Russia is badly damaged from all this and it cannot win the war of attrition. The only way it can win is if vocal (but unaware) people like you will keep doing free cheerleading for it in the west 

We’re not acting brand new, as we literally stated from the beginning that sanctions would not touch Putin or his oligarchs, and would only cause civilians to suffer instead. In this thread, we are being called Putin shills and genocide apologists merely for stating that Biden’s sanctions have completely failed to achieve what he said they would do, and for pointing out that they are exacerbating issues at home in a way that could easily lead to his ouster in just over two years, in favor of a president who was already impeached for leveraging arms support for Ukraine in exchange for dirt on Biden and his son’s alleged corrupt dealings with a Ukrainian energy company.

[Rainy Devil]

Kinda expected tho.

If you really want to blame someone, then blame Russia for starting a cruel and unnecessary war. 

 

Like, the world still has so much problems, we had (covid still going) a pandemic which affected everyone and Russia thinks is time to invade Ukraine as if things aren't hard enough. 

[LeMésTragique]

Russia is in a much worse position than the USA/NATO/EU If things are bad there, then they are x10 worse in Russia. It's not winning.

[Communion]

13 minutes ago, Brando said:

I mean if the world was black and white then ye sure. But there's a thing called geopolitics (and also many other things) that contribute to actions of states 

 

In a perfect world yes, but the elite are always fine despite the harshest sanctions, so let's not act brand new as if this is the first time sanctions are hurting ordinary people and not the rich. 

 

Also fyi 17,000 millionaires left Russia since the start of the invasion. That's a lot of money flooding from Russia. Russia is badly damaged from all this and it cannot win the war of attrition. The only way it can win is if vocal (but unaware) people like you will keep doing free cheerleading for it in the west 

Again, you're refusing to provide an answer to the problem of Democrats needing to find a way to win an election. Flag emojis are not an answer. What are your answers to how Biden turns this around?

[Icarus]

Online wannabe communists really wanted Russia to face zero consequences for an all-out invasion of Ukraine, and the slaughtering its citizens. 
 

Thank god they are a tiny online minority and will never be represented in government in their entire lives. 

[Brando]

9 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

We’re not acting brand new, as we literally stated from the beginning that sanctions would not touch Putin or his oligarchs, and would only cause civilians to suffer instead. In this thread, we are being called Putin shills and genocide apologists merely for stating that Biden’s sanctions have completely failed to achieve what he said they would do, and for pointing out that they are exacerbating issues at home in a way that could easily lead to his ouster in just over two years, in favor of a president who was already impeached for leveraging arms support for Ukraine in exchange for dirt on Biden and his son’s alleged corrupt dealings with a Ukrainian energy company.

They have not failed anything. Russia is badly hurt and it will keep suffering due to lack of access to crucial resources and components and general isolation. The longer it goes the higher the risk that Russia will crumble and fall. The only reason Russia is doing "fine" at the moment is the rising energy prices. That won't last forever and the EU is getting itself off Russian energy dependence slowly but surely. Would you prefer if the west didn't do anything? Like what's the alternative. 

 

 

[ClashAndBurn]

4 minutes ago, Rainy Devil said:

Kinda expected tho.

If you really want to blame someone, then blame Russia for starting a cruel and unnecessary war. 

 

Like, the world still has so much problems, we had (covid still going) a pandemic which affected everyone and Russia thinks is time to invade Ukraine as if things aren't hard enough. 

To be honest, it was the perfect time for them to stage an invasion of Ukraine. Not only due they get to slaughter people of a land they don't even consider a legitimate country, they get to create a global food shortage that will have the effect of driving migrant crises and a greater resurgence of right-wing reactionary politics as European racists react to refugees from MENA and Asia "infiltrating" their countries.

 

They're exacerbating the already tumultuous global instability in order to shape a world that will be more favorable to their interests. Doesn't help that they're militarily incompetent, and that they underestimated Ukrainians' tenacity. But the conflict will just be a drawn out war of attrition that neither side has a strong chance of winning outright until the American Right takes back power and pulls out the rug of support from under Ukraine's feet in order to help Putin.

[Rainy Devil]

2 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

To be honest, it was the perfect time for them to stage an invasion of Ukraine. Not only due they get to slaughter people of a land they don't even consider a legitimate country, they get to create a global food shortage that will have the effect of driving migrant crises and a greater resurgence of right-wing reactionary politics as European racists react to refugees from MENA and Asia "infiltrating" their countries.

 

They're exacerbating the already tumultuous global instability in order to shape a world that will be more favorable to their interests. Doesn't help that they're militarily incompetent, and that they underestimated Ukrainians' tenacity. But the conflict will just be a drawn out war of attrition that neither side has a strong chance of winning outright until the American Right takes back power and pulls out the rug of support from under Ukraine's feet in order to help Putin.

Here in latin america is the far left and the communist the ones supporting Russia tho. 

 

I don't see what Russia is doing something that needs to be analized from a right or left wing kind of thing.

 

Is just about power and control. They don't care if that comes from the right or the left.

[jqnetto]

mess they really thought it would work didn't they 

 

too bad the evils of the world™ keep buying russian stuff, reading russian novels, watching russian sports and listening to russian music.