discussion The Social Democrat & Democratic Socialist Thread ?

[ClashAndBurn]

1 hour ago, FOCK said:

Robby and Kim are insufferable in this. Don’t read the comments. Yeah, I think I’m done with The Hill. 

 

 

I only expect decent opinions from Briahna, Olayemi, and Ryan. Emily Jashinsky isn't completely intolerable or bad faith, and she tries to at least listen to other arguments, but she also has the wrong opinion on... 99.9% of issues I find.  

 

Robby is an ultra-conservative libertarian (that should be anyone's first clue as to how seriously to take him) and Kim's become kind of an insufferable nutjob ever since she joined the bandwagon of comparing abortion rights to anti-vax movements. I can take her when she's... not talking about COVID, but that's... what she spends most of her monologuing on is anti-vax, anti-Fauci stuff.

 

Olayemi and Bri have the patience of saints to have to sit next to Robby espousing his bullshit and not have the urge to slug him in the face. I could not bring myself to watch Olayemi's monologue about Akron yesterday because I didn't have it in me to listen to Robby justifying police brutality against a black man the day after police took in a white incel mass shooter with the same minimal resistance that the Buffalo shooter and Dylann Roof were met with.  

[ClashAndBurn]

7 minutes ago, rihannabiggestfan said:

Omg, Kim   terms like birthing person are not mainstream at all, Latinx teas. And if anything, they're more niche neolib terms

They're healthcare/think tank terms that generally stay within those organizations, but when they leak out, they're done so in a way to make the people who use them look as ridiculous as possible. Latinx is less so, because it's breached the mainstream enough that non-binary Latino people have embraced it for themselves. White liberals (and leftists) are just cringe and applied it to the broader Latino community as an inclusive, non-gendered term not understanding that "Latino" as a term in the language that it is used is already applicable as a gender-neutral term.

 

Latinx can be appropriate for LGBT inclusive spaces, and it can be acceptable on a community by community basis. After all, it was specifically Latinx Night at Pulse when the shooting happened in Orlando 6 years ago. LGBT spaces can afford to be more conscientious of their non-binary patrons.

 

It can't be ignored that the broader Latino community finds Latinx to be extremely offensive (some even equating it to the N word  ). The concept of non-binary is still relatively new for a lot of people, and it's also viewed as "aggressively woke and white English speakers gentrifying their language." People like AOC who can and should stand up for Latino enby folks who use it for themselves should also acknowledge that it is politically toxic to use it broadly.

[GraceRandolph]

The silver lining to this horrendous year and the rogue SCROTUS is that the notion of the “centrist” Democratic Party approach seems to be under fire more than ever before. The Clintonian strategy has utterly failed us. It’s time for an actual leftist Party in the USA. 

[GraceRandolph]

3 hours ago, FOCK said:

Robby and Kim are insufferable in this. Don’t read the comments. Yeah, I think I’m done with The Hill. 

 

 

The Hill is so obviously right-wing, at least Olayemi pushes back on them. I’m tired of transgender people being used as a wedge issue for Republicans. They are so desperate for minority groups to demonize. 

[Thuggin]

 

 

I don't even have the words to describe how contemptible he is. Shameless. To think at one point I looked up to him.

[Eric.]

5 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

They're healthcare/think tank terms that generally stay within those organizations, but when they leak out, they're done so in a way to make the people who use them look as ridiculous as possible. Latinx is less so, because it's breached the mainstream enough that non-binary Latino people have embraced it for themselves. White liberals (and leftists) are just cringe and applied it to the broader Latino community as an inclusive, non-gendered term not understanding that "Latino" as a term in the language that it is used is already applicable as a gender-neutral term.

 

Latinx can be appropriate for LGBT inclusive spaces, and it can be acceptable on a community by community basis. After all, it was specifically Latinx Night at Pulse when the shooting happened in Orlando 6 years ago. LGBT spaces can afford to be more conscientious of their non-binary patrons.

 

It can't be ignored that the broader Latino community finds Latinx to be extremely offensive (some even equating it to the N word  ). The concept of non-binary is still relatively new for a lot of people, and it's also viewed as "aggressively woke and white English speakers gentrifying their language." People like AOC who can and should stand up for Latino enby folks who use it for themselves should also acknowledge that it is politically toxic to use it broadly.

The only thing I can say about the Latinx discourse is how hilarious it is that all of these people who pride themselves on being macho, not-snowflakes and "trans people is why the Democrats lose" vibe are so bent out of shape over a letter.  Like... if you're gonna change all of your political positions over a silly letter then you're just asking for your own kind of political correctness.

 

It really is funny because while it's obviously politically sound to use the common term Latino for these groups of people, at the same time if they're gonna get puritanical about it, then they shouldn't consider themselves all that different from the LGBTQ people many constantly deride as "too sensitive." Somehow people can't get mad that JP for maliciously deadnaming Elliot Page, but then some Latin/Hispanic people are very justified in getting mad over an x. 

 

Never heard of people equating it with the N-word, but considering how ironically sensitive many Latin American people are I wouldn't be surprised. What I'm not surprised about though is that most of the anti-Latinx cry babies I've seen out there are white liberal commentators trying to find someone or something to blame for the way the Latin/Hispanic vote is slowly going to Republicans.

Maybe it's because I don't live in USA, but I have rarely encountered this discourse in real life and never really cared if anyone ever used the term Latinx because it's pretty clear what it means: people of Latin American descent. 

[Eric.]

Also, not Cucker Tarlson flying all the way down to Brazil to interview Glenn.  Guess he stayed at the guest room.

[ClashAndBurn]

2 minutes ago, Eric. said:

The only thing I can say about the Latinx discourse is how hilarious it is that all of these people who pride themselves on being macho, not-snowflakes and "trans people is why the Democrats lose" vibe are so bent out of shape over a letter.  Like... if you're gonna change all of your political positions over a silly letter then you're just asking for your own kind of political correctness.

 

It really is funny because while it's obviously politically sound to use the common term Latino for these groups of people, at the same time if they're gonna get puritanical about it, then they shouldn't consider themselves all that different from the LGBTQ people many constantly deride as "too sensitive." Somehow people can't get mad that JP for maliciously deadnaming Elliot Page, but then some Latin/Hispanic people are very justified in getting mad over an x. 

 

Never heard of people equating it with the N-word, but considering how ironically sensitive many Latin American people are I wouldn't be surprised. What I'm not surprised about though is that most of the anti-Latinx cry babies I've seen out there are white liberal commentators trying to find someone or something to blame for the way the Latin/Hispanic vote is slowly going to Republicans.

Maybe it's because I don't live in USA, but I have rarely encountered this discourse in real life and never really cared if anyone ever used the term Latinx because it's pretty clear what it means: people of Latin American descent. 

The equating with the N-word but is a very fringe thing, but I could honestly see it gaining traction just knowing how alt-right discourse tends to flow having seen it from a distance during the Gamergate days  

 

Anyway, the last thing I do is want to police people’s language. While I’m non-binary myself, I’m most certainly not Latino and don’t necessarily feel it’s my place to have an opinion. Not that that’s stopped cis and/or non-Latino folks from getting their words in edgewise, declaring it terrible and tonedeaf.

 

I otherwise agree with you, and think it’s a stupid discourse to have overall. But as someone who isn’t Latin American, I also have no real authority to declare one way or the other over the heads of those who are, and at the end of the day, “Latinx” is undeniably unpopular and reviled by the overall Latino population of this country, as indicated by polling (and probably just asking your average heteronormative cis Latino person on the street tbh). At worst, people get angry and at best, they’ll laugh at you for being “stupid and woke.”  

Which is also why I’d say treat it how you would people’s pronouns. On an individual preferential basis. But speaking broadly, just accepting that “Latino” is the preferred term for a heterogeneously gendered group of people is a form of picking your battles when you see that sticking by “Latinx” in such a way is undeniably alienating to your cause might be the prudent course of action.

[1DES]

An Unhinged Shill block me after I comment on her video about Liz Channel being applauded for the bare minimum and I ask what was the difference when a democratic does the same. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by 1DES

[wehan6]

 

 

mess. emma also liked kristen's tweet

 

i guess no more nomiki on the majority report 

[Bloo]

On 7/7/2022 at 5:36 AM, ClashAndBurn said:

The equating with the N-word but is a very fringe thing, but I could honestly see it gaining traction just knowing how alt-right discourse tends to flow having seen it from a distance during the Gamergate days  

 

Anyway, the last thing I do is want to police people’s language. While I’m non-binary myself, I’m most certainly not Latino and don’t necessarily feel it’s my place to have an opinion. Not that that’s stopped cis and/or non-Latino folks from getting their words in edgewise, declaring it terrible and tonedeaf.

 

I otherwise agree with you, and think it’s a stupid discourse to have overall. But as someone who isn’t Latin American, I also have no real authority to declare one way or the other over the heads of those who are, and at the end of the day, “Latinx” is undeniably unpopular and reviled by the overall Latino population of this country, as indicated by polling (and probably just asking your average heteronormative cis Latino person on the street tbh). At worst, people get angry and at best, they’ll laugh at you for being “stupid and woke.”  

Which is also why I’d say treat it how you would people’s pronouns. On an individual preferential basis. But speaking broadly, just accepting that “Latino” is the preferred term for a heterogeneously gendered group of people is a form of picking your battles when you see that sticking by “Latinx” in such a way is undeniably alienating to your cause might be the prudent course of action.

I think this is generally how I feel about the discourse about Latinx. It's a family discussion for that community to have amongst themselves. The term was coined by non-binary members of the Latino community and so they want to have a term where they feel included in their community. I think that's great and makes sense. Given that Spanish is a heavily gendered language due to its romantic roots, I can see why that's a challenging battle. However, it's not my place to insert myself into that discourse. It's also not the place of the mainstream public to have that discourse either and that's my general problem with people screaming bloody murder about the term. It's not that mainstream (albeit more mainstream/well-known than "birthing people"). Let's leave it to that community. If the language changes well off into the future where it's more common, then we can move towards that. But, right now, the term is deeply despised by the broader Latino community so we should just avoid it and not push them one way or the other. I think I'll die before Latinx gains any broad traction as a term, honestly. But who knows.

 

For now, I think Latino is fine until that community decides otherwise. Unless you're of that community you shouldn't really be saying one way or the other about how they should identify. It's like cishet people telling the LGBTQ+ community how they should identify or refer to themselves. That's a discussion for the LGBTQ+ community to have with ourselves.

[Communion]

11 hours ago, wehan6 said:

 

 

mess. emma also liked kristen's tweet

 

i guess no more nomiki on the majority report 

I liked Nomiki's spunk in the 2016 Bernie campaign but then she outed herself as a regime change-defending neocon who punches left most of the time now so I hope she loses her ratfucking campaign against the DSA candidate

[rihannabiggestfan]

I unsubscribed from Nomiki a while ago, this helps validate that

[Bloo]

 

I—  

 

[GraceRandolph]

10 minutes ago, Bloo said:

 

I—  

 

 

[Communion]

2 hours ago, Bloo said:

 

I—  

 

Guess she's not a big free speech advocate after all 

 

---

 

I'm never one to follow the super niche online left~y multiverse drama, but this:

 

leading me to realize during people outing SocDoneLeft as racist I somehow missed he was the literal grandchild and failson of a billion-dollar American weapons manufacturer??? 

[ClashAndBurn]

13 minutes ago, Communion said:

Guess she's not a big free speech advocate after all 

 

---

 

I'm never one to follow the super niche online left~y multiverse drama, but this:

 

leading me to realize during people outing SocDoneLeft as racist I somehow missed he was the literal grandchild and failson of a billion-dollar American weapons manufacturer??? 

Isn’t SocDoneLeft the Vaush stan that clipped Brie in a way that made her look like she was praising Tucker Carlson when everything she said around the clip would make it clear that she wasn’t?

[Communion]

1 minute ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Isn’t SocDoneLeft the Vaush stan that clipped Brie in a way that made her look like she was praising Tucker Carlson when everything she said around the clip would make it clear that she wasn’t?

Yes. There's a whole sphere of like #veryonline """progressives""" (they used to call themselves dumb **** like "classical liberals just 4 or 5 years ago) be it Vaush or SDL or others who make their online persona praising Biden, attacking people who question electoral politics, and call everyone critical of the US a "tankie".

 

They somehow blend with the podcast-sphere people who hyper-focus on Jimmy Dore, making (yes, some rightful) criticisms of him, but then that leading to weird strays aimed at people like Briahna or Katie Halper. Like for example I genuinely just don't have time for people like Sam Seder solely for these weird personality beefs w/ Brie.

 

I like politics because I think the issues are important. That so many people are personalities not about the issues is... 

[ClashAndBurn]

12 minutes ago, Communion said:

Yes. There's a whole sphere of like #veryonline """progressives""" (they used to call themselves dumb **** like "classical liberals just 4 or 5 years ago) be it Vaush or SDL or others who make their online persona praising Biden, attacking people who question electoral politics, and call everyone critical of the US a "tankie".

 

They somehow blend with the podcast-sphere people who hyper-focus on Jimmy Dore, making (yes, some rightful) criticisms of him, but then that leading to weird strays aimed at people like Briahna or Katie Halper. Like for example I genuinely just don't have time for people like Sam Seder solely for these weird personality beefs w/ Brie.

 

I like politics because I think the issues are important. That so many people are personalities not about the issues is... 

It seems more or less the online left isn’t really organized anymore, and it’s split off into cults of personality rather than achieving any measurable goals. Partly because I guess electoralism has worked itself into an undeniable dead-end where elected progressives aren’t even willing to take up priorities like Force The Vote to do the bare minimum of keeping Pelosi out of the speakership. The only thing they’re willing to do is suck up to Biden. So… I guess, what’s there to even advocate for?

 

Drama gets clicks, so I guess that’s why people like Vaush and Seder focus so much on the infighting, which in turn drives more infighting. It’s all just disheartening to see.

 

Thats why I’m most interested in Olayemi Olurin right now. She’s not focused on that whole infighting thing and is far more willing to push back against her right-wing co-commentators than Krystal Ball has ever been towards Saagar. Also she’s willing to expose people like Eric Adams and his horrid practices with regards to the deaths that have been happening at Rikers. So she gives me a little bit of optimism whereas so far, much of online leftist discourse has taken a disillusioning turn ever since Bernie lost the primary and left us rudderless.

[Bloo]

23 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

It seems more or less the online left isn’t really organized anymore, and it’s split off into cults of personality rather than achieving any measurable goals. Partly because I guess electoralism has worked itself into an undeniable dead-end where elected progressives aren’t even willing to take up priorities like Force The Vote to do the bare minimum of keeping Pelosi out of the speakership. The only thing they’re willing to do is suck up to Biden. So… I guess, what’s there to even advocate for?

 

Drama gets clicks, so I guess that’s why people like Vaush and Seder focus so much on the infighting, which in turn drives more infighting. It’s all just disheartening to see.

 

Thats why I’m most interested in Olayemi Olurin right now. She’s not focused on that whole infighting thing and is far more willing to push back against her right-wing co-commentators than Krystal Ball has ever been towards Saagar. Also she’s willing to expose people like Eric Adams and his horrid practices with regards to the deaths that have been happening at Rikers. So she gives me a little bit of optimism whereas so far, much of online leftist discourse has taken a disillusioning turn ever since Bernie lost the primary and left us rudderless.

This is what happens when the only viable candidate we have is an 80 year old Biden simp. No disrespect to Bernie, but the idea of him running a third time makes me a bit annoyed only because it just reminds me that we literally have put all our eggs in one basket and we're not trying to branch out into other voices. I think, in general, the left needs some unifying voice that we can get behind. Until then we're going to bitch and squabble with one another unfortunately. 

 

Hopefully someone rises to the occasion here soon, whether in electoral politics or in a fierce activist role. We need it. Hopefully whoever that is is bold enough to take on Biden and other leaders with no reservations.

[ClashAndBurn]

5 minutes ago, Bloo said:

This is what happens when the only viable candidate we have is an 80 year old Biden simp. No disrespect to Bernie, but the idea of him running a third time makes me a bit annoyed only because it just reminds me that we literally have put all our eggs in one basket and we're not trying to branch out into other voices. I think, in general, the left needs some unifying voice that we can get behind. Until then we're going to ***** and squabble with one another unfortunately. 

 

Hopefully someone rises to the occasion here soon, whether in electoral politics or in a fierce activist role. We need it. Hopefully whoever that is is bold enough to take on Biden and other leaders with no reservations.

Well, I don't expect Bernie to run again anyway. He's taken himself out of consideration if Biden's running, in part because he's a Biden simp as you said. But also... even if it's Kamala... I feel like he should have learned by now that the Democrats go all out against him but treat Republicans with kid gloves. So it would really be a waste of his supporters' time and money for him to run again, knowing that he can't even push these fools left even an inch.

[A Bomb]

4 hours ago, Bloo said:

 

I—  

 

her damages being youtube comments. Yes, Kim very “simple”. I’m personally tired of these progressive bozos. They always want to out flank the leftist Democrats, but sprint away from the label of being a socialist @Briahna Joy Gray. Only signaling her out specially bc she ranted about how actual organizers didn’t support her idiotic political stunt. 
 

[ClashAndBurn]

11 minutes ago, A Bomb said:

her damages being youtube comments. Yes, Kim very “simple”. I’m personally tired of these progressive bozos. They always want to out flank the leftist Democrats, but sprint away from the label of being a socialist @Briahna Joy Gray. Only signaling her out specially bc she ranted about how actual organizers didn’t support her idiotic political stunt. 
 

Using it as a cover to get rid of Pelosi as Speaker would have been good. That woman has done irreparable damage to the Democratic Party, so they'd be doing them a service really!

 

Other than that, I didn't really agree with the impetus behind Force The Vote. The Democratic Party is united against providing anything better than Obamacare because they don't want the legacy of their precious "first black president" to be diminished.

[A Bomb]

9 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Using it as a cover to get rid of Pelosi as Speaker would have been good. That woman has done irreparable damage to the Democratic Party, so they'd be doing them a service really!

 

Other than that, I didn't really agree with the impetus behind Force The Vote. The Democratic Party is united against providing anything better than Obamacare because they don't want the legacy of their precious "first black president" to be diminished.

I just don't believe it would have achieved anything. Biden abandoning BBB, $15 minimum wage, and any type of student debt relief hasn’t realized in anything material. Still sitting at 80% approval rating among Dems that would support him again. 
 

Seeing the progressive caucus abandon the coupling of BBB, and the budget reconciliation bill was evident that these people don’t even want to feign concern about passing any legislation. It’s difficult that a symbolic vote would achieve more messaging than the death of BBB. MSM would just use it to say “see it is far left!! Extremism! No one wants to vote for it”
 

The absolutely cowardly response to Roe seems like our best shot to get these dinosaur OUT of office. Not just leadership. The biggest hurdle has been the old people who have been voting for these incompetent losers for decades.
 

And honestly how those voters are very apprehensive about something like M4A that would allow poor Black, and brown people in their pristine clinics and hospitals. To get care from THEIR doctors. Dentistry would actually not be as profitable under M4A. There just are too many ways to spin a failing vote on M4A to favor classist staunch Democrats. 

[rihannabiggestfan]

Speaking of Sam Seder (or as some call him, "MSNBCeder"), I'm not a fan of him anymore, but I have to admit that he killed it here and slayed the dry humor (aka my kind of humor) here

 

 

Not Sam saying the word meme back in 2005  I guarantee that the 2 middle-aged people didn't know what that word meant when he said it

Edited July 11, 2022 by rihannabiggestfan