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Apple responds to false Spotify claims

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Oxygen

Apple prohibit apps like Spotify and Netflix to link their websites so that users can sign up to their subscriptions from the app. They even go as far as prohibiting them from even suggesting for them to go to the website. They make it as hard as possible for companies to avoid their own billing system, just so they can get close to a third of their revenue.

 

The fact some of y'all think this anti-competitive behaviour is acceptable :rip: 

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Superpower
23 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

I know how to read, I also study PR so I know how to craft a statement. 

 

Apple say Spotify is on a level playing field with other apps. Yes, this is true - but not Spotify’s complaint. They are not on a level playing field with Apple Music. THAT is the complaint that Apple ignored completely. 

 

They try and imply that Spotify wants to use Apple’s billing system at no fee, i.e the 30% fee. This is false. They would much rather use their own billing system like they do on Android, but they are not allowed too. THAT is the complaint that Apple ignored completely. 

 

Then they bring up Spotify’s own ~shady practices~ about not paying the artist, when this isn’t relevant at all to the conversation. They are just deflecting to undermine Spotify’s credibility. A classic tactic. 

 

Yes Spotify didn’t mention a few things in their statement, but Apple isn’t clean here either.

The “same playing field” level is a BS complaint because Spotify controls 80% of the market share in Europe (where the complaint was filed.) They are bigger. Spotify’s main complaint was about paying the 30% fee. Something only a tiny portion of their users have to pay.

Spotify wants to use the App Store for free and they basically do that already. iPhone users can’t pay their Spotify bills with their Apple ID. You have to give them your personal information directly.

Apple charging companies (not just Spotify) for using their App Store is fair and goes beyond music streaming. You can’t use a service and expect to not pay for it. And it doesn’t matter how you twist it, that’s what Spotify wants.

This case will be thrown out. Spotify only filed the lawsuit for clicks and to try to generate some bad press for Apple. You said you studied PR but you failed to see that.

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Superpower
14 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

Apple prohibit apps like Spotify and Netflix to link their websites so that users can sign up to their subscriptions from the app. They even go as far as prohibiting them from even suggesting for them to go to the website. They make it as hard as possible for companies to avoid their own billing system, just so they can get close to a third of their revenue.

 

The fact some of y'all think this anti-competitive behaviour is acceptable :rip: 

i have Netflix and they always send me to their website when i use the App. 

it’s easy to set up your account and they renew it automatically. Same for Spotify! When i tried the 3 months for $9.99 deal, they redirected me to their website even though i was using the App.

Spot believing Spotify lies. They are the shadiest service. 

 

 

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Can't_M!ss_This
12 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

Apple prohibit apps like Spotify and Netflix to link their websites so that users can sign up to their subscriptions from the app. They even go as far as prohibiting them from even suggesting for them to go to the website. They make it as hard as possible for companies to avoid their own billing system, just so they can get close to a third of their revenue.

 

The fact some of y'all think this anti-competitive behaviour is acceptable :rip: 

How else is Apple supposed to cover the costs, let alone make a profit, if every app were throwing up notifications to a site to signup and provide payment information? Why shouldn’t Apple get money when they pay for the tools Spotify uses to make their app? When Apple pays employees to handle customer service requests from Spotify developers. When Apple pays their employees who inspect all apps before they go live? When Apple pays to maintain servers to host and deliver the apps to hundreds of millions of people globally? 

 

Would you allow somebody to live long term in you house, eat your food, and not charge them money? What are you getting in return? The pride of housing a mooch? Try depositing goodwill into a bank. 

 

No, the point is that without taking from subscribers, Apple gets nothing from Spotify since they don’t even charge for the app. Same with Netflix. Apple is doing all this work for a conduit that the beneficiaries aren’t even paying into. 

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Oxygen
19 minutes ago, Superpower said:

The “same playing field” level is a BS complaint because Spotify controls 80% of the market share in Europe (where the complaint was filed.) They are bigger. Spotify’s main complaint was about paying the 30% fee. Something only a tiny portion of their users have to pay.

The same playing field on iOS devices is what the complaint is talking about. Apple allow users who open the Apple Music app (which is preinstalled on their phone) to subscribe straight away and they will get 100% of that revenue. If a user was to do the same for Spotify if they were using Apple's billing system they'd only get 70% of the revenue. They can't give a link to their own billing system, they can't tell users to go to their website as per Apple's rules. 

 

19 minutes ago, Superpower said:

Spotify wants to use the App Store for free and they basically do that already. iPhone users can’t pay their Spotify bills with their Apple ID. You have to give them your personal information directly.

Apple charging companies (not just Spotify) for using their App Store is fair and goes beyond music streaming. You can’t use a service and expect to not pay for it. And it doesn’t matter how you twist it, that’s what Spotify wants.

No they do not. To use the App Store they just need to pay the developers fee, which they obviously do. What they don't want to pay for is the 30% fee on subscriptions made through their imposed billing system. This isn't an issue on Andriod devices as Google allows these services to use their own billing system instead of the one in Google Play. Apple doesn't and that is the cause of the complaint.

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Oxygen
20 minutes ago, Can't_M!ss_This said:

How else is Apple supposed to cover the costs, let alone make a profit, if every app were throwing up notifications to a site to signup and provide payment information? Why shouldn’t Apple get money when they pay for the tools Spotify uses to make their app? When Apple pays employees to handle customer service requests from Spotify developers. When Apple pays their employees who inspect all apps before they go live? When Apple pays to maintain servers to host and deliver the apps to hundreds of millions of people globally? 

Apple made $46 billion in revenue off the App Store last year alone. Stop making it out that Apple is in dire need of money to cover the costs.

 

It's about choice. If a company wants to invest and use their own billing system, then that is fine. If they don't then they can just rely on Apple's billing system. That's the beauty of a competitive market, there is CHOICE 

 

20 minutes ago, Can't_M!ss_This said:

Would you allow somebody to live long term in you house, eat your food, and not charge them money? What are you getting in return? The pride of housing a mooch? Try depositing goodwill into a bank. 

Sorry sis but this analogy is flawed. Spotify do pay Apple "rent" for living in their house i.e the annual developer fee. 

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Oxygen
15 minutes ago, Superpower said:

i have Netflix and they always send me to their website when i use the App. 

it’s easy to set up your account and they renew it automatically. Same for Spotify! When i tried the 3 months for $9.99 deal, they redirected me to their website even though i was using the App.

 Spot believing Spotify lies. They are the shadiest service. 

 

 

If you open the Netflix app for the first time it asks you to sign in. There is no where for a new user to join or nor does it tell them how to sign up - all it says is 'members that subscribe to Netflix can watch it here in the app'. 

 

Meanwhile on Android there is a link right underneath the sign in button to sign up and select a plan.

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Superpower
10 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

The same playing field on iOS devices is what the complaint is talking about. Apple allow users who open the Apple Music app (which is preinstalled on their phone) to subscribe straight away and they will get 100% of that revenue. If a user was to do the same for Spotify if they were using Apple's billing system they'd only get 70% of the revenue. They can't give a link to their own billing system, they can't tell users to go to their website as per Apple's rules. 

 

No they do not. To use the App Store they just need to pay the developers fee, which they obviously do. What they don't want to pay for is the 30% fee on subscriptions made through their imposed billing system. This isn't an issue on Andriod devices as Google allows these services to use their own billing system instead of the one in Google Play. Apple doesn't and that is the cause of the complaint.

Except for a user to use Spotify on iphone, they have to go through the App Store. 

Spotify gets 100% of the $9.99. The additional fee is charged to the user (not to spotify) and it’s on your bill. 

They can redirect you to their website. Everytime i see a good promo , i use it and they link me to their website to enter my credit card.

 

Apple has already explained that only a tiny portion of Apps have to pay those fees and that the majority of Spotify users dont even pay those fees. Spotify stopped using the Apple ID billing system back in 2015. At this point, the complaint only affects a miniscule portion of their users.

 

 

 

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Superpower
10 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

If you open the Netflix app for the first time it asks you to sign in. There is no where for a new user to join or nor does it tell them how to sign up - all it says is 'members that subscribe to Netflix can watch it here in the app'. 

 

Meanwhile on Android there is a link right underneath the sign in button to sign up and select a plan.

this is something Netflix did themseleves

https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/21/netflix-itunes-2/

 

And Spotify has been since 2015. 

 

I wish Apple didnt charge me the extra 30%  but Spotify has no ground to sue.

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Oxygen
1 minute ago, Superpower said:

Spotify gets 100% of the $9.99. The additional fee is charged to the user (not to spotify) and it’s on your bill. 

That's literally not 100% of what the subscriber is paying then, what's not clicking :rip: 

 

3 minutes ago, Superpower said:

They can redirect you to their website. Everytime i see a good promo , i use it and they link me to their website to enter my credit card.

Sis it's 100% a fact that you can't. Google it if you want if you do not believe me. You need to manually go to Spotify's website in order to sign up.

 

5 minutes ago, Superpower said:

Apple has already explained that only a tiny portion of Apps have to pay those fees and that the majority of Spotify users dont even pay those fees. Spotify stopped using the Apple ID billing system back in 2015. At this point, the complaint only affects a miniscule portion of their users.

Their complaint focuses on how Apple have an unfair advantage. The 30% fee comes into it when they say that all other companies have to pay that except Apple, so it makes their prices look inflated. But the fee isn't the crux of the complaint.

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Oxygen
2 minutes ago, Superpower said:

this is something Netflix did themseleves

https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/21/netflix-itunes-2/

 

And Spotify has been since 2015. 

 

I wish Apple didnt charge me the extra 30%  but Spotify has no ground to sue.

A test from 7 months ago that obviously failed since it no longer redirects? I am assuming Apple slammed them for infringing upon the developer agreement.

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Can't_M!ss_This
1 hour ago, Oxygen said:

Sorry sis but this analogy is flawed. Spotify do pay Apple "rent" for living in their house i.e the annual developer fee. 

And when they pay that fee they agree to the terms. If they don’t like it, they can take Spotify off the App Store. Customers would go crazy and Apple would make a change. 

 

Let’s say Apple changes course and allows any app developer to put up their own payment page. So instead of being a secure system, backed by Apple’s award winning customer service it would be the Wild West. And when payment details get stolen, who’s getting the bad press? Apple. When a customer tries to get a refund for a purchase but can’t get ahold of the people behind the app, who gets the blame? It’s Apple. 

 

 

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Can't_M!ss_This
16 minutes ago, Digital said:

@Oxygen in here fighting the good fight and doing the Lord's work putting all of these monopoly-enthusiasts in their place. :clap3:

You can hardly call Apple a monopoly. They’re the 3rd biggest smartphone maker, second largest mobile platform OS, second desktop OS, I don’t even know where Safari ranks among browsers, second biggest on demand streaming provider, second biggest App Store, they hold a fraction of the WW smartphone market. Where is the monopoly? Do you know what the word means? 

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SHRINE
4 hours ago, Oxygen said:

I know how to read, I also study PR so I know how to craft a statement. 

 

Apple say Spotify is on a level playing field with other apps. Yes, this is true - but not Spotify’s complaint. They are not on a level playing field with Apple Music. THAT is the complaint that Apple ignored completely. 

 

They try and imply that Spotify wants to use Apple’s billing system at no fee, i.e the 30% fee. This is false. They would much rather use their own billing system like they do on Android, but they are not allowed too. THAT is the complaint that Apple ignored completely. 

 

Then they bring up Spotify’s own ~shady practices~ about not paying the artist, when this isn’t relevant at all to the conversation. They are just deflecting to undermine Spotify’s credibility. A classic tactic. 

 

Yes Spotify didn’t mention a few things in their statement, but Apple isn’t clean here either.

They’re as clear as they need to be. Spotify are essentially saying it’s wrong that Apple charge 30%, which is true, they do, but that halves after the first year (which is the price in what Spotify would be paying). That’s their biggest argument, with Apple even stating that Spotify aren’t always paying that due to the free services they provide etc. They also stated that Spotify would pay the same to mobile carriers etc. that offer people free premium subs, but where’s their complaints over them? There’s none - because apple are an easy target. Bringing what they pay artists is incredible important, because y’know, they’re music streaming platforms. Spotify don’t fairly pay artists enough, especially providing a free tier. Spotify can not pull the “fairness” card here when they’re trying to take down the very platform that helped in a major way to get them to where they are now, along with suing and underpaying artists what they deserve. It’s rich for apple to imply it, but Spotify are acting like money hungry little bitches here and I’m glad apple pointed out more than what they needed to. 

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Rainsford

What Spotify said is that Apple Music gets privilege against all the other streaming services. Apple Music can lower their subscription price (because all the money goes to them) and do discounts where the other streaming services can't and every iPhone comes with Apple Music already installed. That's why they filled an antitrust against Apple.

 

Google/Android has a streaming service, but everything Google Music can do, all the other streaming services also can, but on IOS only Apple Music gets the benefits. 

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Rainsford
4 hours ago, SHRINE said:

They’re as clear as they need to be. Spotify are essentially saying it’s wrong that Apple charge 30%, which is true, they do, but that halves after the first year (which is the price in what Spotify would be paying). That’s their biggest argument, with Apple even stating that Spotify aren’t always paying that due to the free services they provide etc. They also stated that Spotify would pay the same to mobile carriers etc. that offer people free premium subs, but where’s their complaints over them? There’s none - because apple are an easy target. Bringing what they pay artists is incredible important, because y’know, they’re music streaming platforms. Spotify don’t fairly pay artists enough, especially providing a free tier. Spotify can not pull the “fairness” card here when they’re trying to take down the very platform that helped in a major way to get them to where they are now, along with suing and underpaying artists what they deserve. It’s rich for apple to imply it, but Spotify are acting like money hungry little bitches here and I’m glad apple pointed out more than what they needed to. 

Spotify can't offer discounts through the store but Apple Music has the "gets 3 months for free" banner all over the place.

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SHRINE
21 minutes ago, Rainsford said:

Spotify can't offer discounts through the store but Apple Music has the "gets 3 months for free" banner all over the place.

that's because the own the platform and their own streaming service. they can do what they want - it's theirs. if people think it would be different the other way around then...

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Rainsford
Just now, SHRINE said:

that's because the own the platform and their own streaming service. they can do what they want - it's theirs. if people think it would be different the other way around then...

Google Music is on the same playing field with the other streaming services on Android. And Apple can't do whatever they want, they are not above law (unless some money is involved of course).

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Archetype
8 minutes ago, Rainsford said:

What Spotify said is that Apple Music gets privilege against all the other streaming services. Apple Music can lower their subscription price (because all the money goes to them) and do discounts where the other streaming services can't and every iPhone comes with Apple Music already installed. That's why they filled an antitrust against Apple.

 

Google/Android has a streaming service, but everything Google Music can do, all the other streaming services also can, but on IOS only Apple Music gets the benefits. 

That's not the issue here.  Spotify is in a tough financial position because they can't afford the extra 30% cost Apple charges for all digital in-app purchases.  They claim that if they can use their own billing system, they shouldn't have to pay the 30% fee.  However, Apple requires all App Store transactions flow through Apple's billing system, thus, Apple always gets 30% (or half after a year of subscribing to Spotify).  Spotify began blocking in-app purchases on iOS a while ago, so this only affects a small subset of users.  Netflix hasn't offered in-app subscriptions, and yet, they don't seem to be having issues convincing iOS users to sign up through the browser.

 

Another things for you to consider is that Apple is NOT the the largest seller of smartphones, iOS is NOT the most popular or most ubiquitous mobile OS, Apple Music is NOT the most popular streaming service, etc.  Spotify has the ability to offer its services on more popular platforms as they wish, earn 100% of revenue from purchases made on Android, MacOS, Windows, etc.  Microsoft does the same thing with Xbox game sales and their cloud storage systems, Sony with Playstation sales, Nintendo with game sales, Google with enterprise-level cloud storage, Amazon with AWS, etc.  All of these services offer and host content, some of their own, but most from third parties who ALL pay fees to the distributor and host of their products.  

 

 

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